Stale ASF Wher meta

(I mainly play USf)

So, the recurring theme with all wher players recently has been 2-3 MG42 (cancer) with maybe 1 gren and 2(+) Pgren. since the gren has the Panzerfuast available at T0 I can't use the jeep to hit and run the MG. The USF Mortar is absolute trash and refuses to kill anything, and whenever I put the funds into grenades and smoke push the Pgrens show up and counter charge me at close range. It has gotten so bad that I mainly run I&R pathfinders so I can just nuke the abominations from orbit. (which means i have little muni for bars so Pgrens and LVs run me over later). This meta is so boring and also really frustrating especially when I see the soviets kill MGs in seconds with their Good mortar, penal mininukes, con molotov charge, and snipers.

Some actually useful strats to deal with this aids is welcome friends.

specify mode you playing,if it is 3v3 4v4 never ask questions like that,balance there totally broken and unfixable

If this is 2v2 1v1 that's l2p issue, when werh does 3mg at the start it's just free win for anyone who knows mg's drawbacks,not that bad in 2v2 but still pretty shitty start

USF Mortar is basically useless for killing, even moreso than the already castrated mortars everyone else has. Use it for smoke or don't get it at all.

My advice would be go LT into Stuart (which fends off Ostheer LVs easily enough and can somewhat competently deal with the MG42s) or Captain and use "On Me!" to clear suppression on infantry squads, then use them to flank or rush a nade the MG-42. Once you get to Shermans you should be able to wipe any MGs remaining with HE.

If your opponent went 3 MGs in 1v1 specifically you should also generally be able to acquire better map control unless it's a map really easy to lock down with garrisoned MGs.




Doctrinally, if HMG-42s are a big problem, I'd try Urban Assault Company for the Riflemen Molotovs, or Rifle Company for Fire Up in conjunction with grenades. Heavy Cavalry is also a solid choice here if only for the off-map smoke, though it's also USF's only heavy tank doctrine so these days it should probably be in your roster anyway.

It is very easy to get rid of mg spam, especially when you have Riflemans terminators. If you manage to flank and there is a Gren squad defending it, just ignore them, the dps they possess are simply insignificant, it will eliminate the MG before losing 3 models.

(I mainly play USf)

So, the recurring theme with all wher players recently has been 2-3 MG42 (cancer) with maybe 1 gren and 2(+) Pgren. since the gren has the Panzerfuast available at T0 I can't use the jeep to hit and run the MG. The USF Mortar is absolute trash and refuses to kill anything, and whenever I put the funds into grenades and smoke push the Pgrens show up and counter charge me at close range. It has gotten so bad that I mainly run I&R pathfinders so I can just nuke the abominations from orbit. (which means i have little muni for bars so Pgrens and LVs run me over later). This meta is so boring and also really frustrating especially when I see the soviets kill MGs in seconds with their Good mortar, penal mininukes, con molotov charge, and snipers.

Some actually useful strats to deal with this aids is welcome friends.

İ understand your situation. But there is no solution in this forum. They will always give npc answers to you.(Use smoke,make flank,use lv,...)Just play soviets.Or just bring rifleman smoke again. With 15 muni.Problem solved.

(I mainly play USf)

So, the recurring theme with all wher players recently has been 2-3 MG42 (cancer) with maybe 1 gren and 2(+) Pgren. since the gren has the Panzerfuast available at T0 I can't use the jeep to hit and run the MG. The USF Mortar is absolute trash and refuses to kill anything, and whenever I put the funds into grenades and smoke push the Pgrens show up and counter charge me at close range. It has gotten so bad that I mainly run I&R pathfinders so I can just nuke the abominations from orbit. (which means i have little muni for bars so Pgrens and LVs run me over later). This meta is so boring and also really frustrating especially when I see the soviets kill MGs in seconds with their Good mortar, penal mininukes, con molotov charge, and snipers.

Some actually useful strats to deal with this aids is welcome friends.

The more you play it, the more ways you find to beat it. Meta is meta, idk no matter what game there will always be a mass of people doing the same thing because they've seen it work for pro players, or on youtube.

It's the case with all strategy games. I feel like this is more of a learn to play issue.

...since the gren has the Panzerfuast available at T0...

Faust is not available at T0 it need T1 or T2.

USF Mortar is basically useless for killing, even moreso than the already castrated mortars everyone else has. Use it for smoke or don't get it at all.
...

Yet it was build 10 times by top players in the tournament.

Faust is not available at T0 it need T1 or T2.

Have you found a way to get grens in the first minute without getting T1 yet?

(I mainly play USf)

So, the recurring theme with all wher players recently has been 2-3 MG42 (cancer) with maybe 1 gren and 2(+) Pgren. since the gren has the Panzerfuast available at T0 I can't use the jeep to hit and run the MG. The USF Mortar is absolute trash and refuses to kill anything, and whenever I put the funds into grenades and smoke push the Pgrens show up and counter charge me at close range. It has gotten so bad that I mainly run I&R pathfinders so I can just nuke the abominations from orbit. (which means i have little muni for bars so Pgrens and LVs run me over later). This meta is so boring and also really frustrating especially when I see the soviets kill MGs in seconds with their Good mortar, penal mininukes, con molotov charge, and snipers.

Some actually useful strats to deal with this aids is welcome friends.

2-3 HMGs is a lot of MP investment early on, 1 grenadier can't be everywhere to counter your light vehicle so you should have room to force him to retreat some of his HMGs. The mortar is indeed mandatory to smoke and push, you should also be using your own HMG to counter his infantry as well.

This strat usually means he is going to rush his own vehicle, skipping T2 followed usually by a fast Ostwind or fast Pz4. So secure your fuel, build a cache nearby with the MP you saved and use the mortar smoke to push back his HMGs little by little.
If you built a light vehicle and didn't cut enough his fuel, the Ostwind will be a major pain in the ass for you if you went T1+upgrade+light. Imo, in the case of stalement T2 is a better investment with pakhowie, ATG and AAHT. As well here BARs aren't the best investment until you took off the field those HMGs.
The rest depend on the doctrine you selected, Airborn and you can drop HMGs and ATG + Pathf extra vision, Reco and you can drop a pakH + pathf extra vision + cluster bomb, M5 and Calliope, Rangers and Pershing, sprint + Willy Peter and Ez8, RE grenade laucher + Sherman Dozer and sprint etc...

USF has no real way to deal with it except rushing AA halftrack and just driving into ost with it. Since he's low on grens risk of faust is low, and you can outmicro 1 pak when he gets it. Also deals with pgrens by suppressing them so you can use inf to force them off.

I agree though, I think the problem is MG42 being too good and coming out too fast compared to every other MG in the game, which makes it a nobrainer to go for, especially vs USF which has 0 realistic indirect to deal with it.

II agree though, I think the problem is MG42 being too good and coming out too fast compared to every other MG in the game, which makes it a nobrainer to go for, especially vs USF which has 0 realistic indirect to deal with it.

1) You have to use it as Ostheer. Grens spam vs Riflemen is suicide since they’re basically terminators.

2) Vickers comes out just as fast and is even more OP in buildings/trenches.

Yet it was build 10 times by top players in the tournament.

And how many kills did they get? Read thread OP again if you're about to say something like that being irrelevant. I don't want to derail yet another thread over the USF mortar statistically being the worst in game. I offered my advice. Just let it be.

Maybe is confirmation bias, but usf mortar when given sight, is more accurate than wehr mortar. Rounds seem to land much closer and killing my wehr units!

And how many kills did they get? Read thread OP again if you're about to say something like that being irrelevant. I don't want to derail yet another thread over the USF mortar statistically being the worst in game. I offered my advice. Just let it be.

You have to ask Shiphonx or watch the replays. Point is that argument that "USF Mortar is basically useless for killing.." is probably disproved by high level player usage if they need just smoke they would unlock grenades. If the unit was as useless as presented it would not be built in high level game yet more USF mortar where produced than both Ostheer and Soviet mortars (about the same as % with ostheer).

Actually as I pointed out in another thread USF produced more HMG/indirect fire wepaons in that tournament although it is the Ostheer that theoretically relay on "combined" arms.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/103950/feedback-for-winter-preview

And that is a direct result of USF tech changes which I had pointed.

I love how everyone here forgot about the PanzerGren blobs that can pop the cheap panzershreks and instakill my LV's and mediums. Not to mention the BS Incendiary rounds for the MG42 spam

I can handle Wher players in 1v1 and 2v2 settings, but whenever I want to play the team game settings with friends it becomes a stale cancerfest so is the only option in 4v4 is to lay down and die as USF?

I love how everyone here forgot about the PanzerGren blobs that can pop the cheap panzershreks and instakill my LV's and mediums.

Pgren blobs? These don’t exist past rank 300s.

I can handle Wher players in 1v1 and 2v2 settings, but whenever I want to play the team game settings with friends it becomes a stale cancerfest so is the only option in 4v4 is to lay down and die as USF?

Captain into Pack Howitzer? Recon Support for IR paths with artillery and pack drop? Rifle company for RE flamer? Rangers with Thompsons and work the flanks?

Pgren blobs? These don’t exist past rank 300s.




Captain into Pack Howitzer? Recon Support for IR paths with artillery and pack drop? Rifle company for RE flamer? Rangers with Thompsons and work the flanks?

Even 2 Pgrens with shreks can cripple a tank and insta kill an LV, and rear flamers? Rifle Company? what a joke. and you cant really work flanks when the enemy has multi layer bunker/MG campfest with overlapping fields of fire. Not to mention pak howies and recon support are VERY expensive with a 540 manpower drop.With 140 muni arty ability.