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Why is the ost mortar HT being nerfed vs Brit emplacements

2 Feb 2020, 09:42 AM
#21
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794



It take about 2 year for the mod team to finally trying to fix UKF.

You dont know about the endless neft series UKF has been through from the release up to very currently. Cause again, you dont play UKF.


Ukf was fine outside their initial OP intro, when bofors shred anything in sight.

In past 2 years, firefly is buffed. We had brens blobs in 2v2, team games. Churchill pretty much dominate 2v2. Piats have been made really good.

I dont see this winter trial as fixing ukf. More reactionary to wc19. :(
2 Feb 2020, 09:43 AM
#22
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



They are OP by their stats, thet doesn't means they can't be countered.

Update your game, you seem to be 3 years behind.

Still OP by map-designs, can't be fixed because the hole game shouldn't be designed by stuff never should be added in game -> british fraction.

How?
Both axis factions have stock units to hardcounter them from safe distance.
Both axis factions have early game doctrinal option to ROFLSTOMP them.

Its only OP if you refuse to counter it.

Edit: Many people and mod-teams tried to fix the emplacement situation, it isn't possible like you see. One option was to rempace it, give brits normal mortars with range deficit and give them the option for range-buff if garrisoned in the trench-emplacemnt brits can build non-doc. Would be an easy way, relic and patch-team decided for something else.

Emplacements are unpleasent to play against, but to say they are overpowered is plain bullshit at this point.
2 Feb 2020, 09:44 AM
#23
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392



Ukf was fine outside their initial OP intro, when bofors shred anything in sight.

In past 2 years, firefly is buffed. We had brens blobs in 2v2, team games. Churchill pretty much dominate 2v2. Piats have been made really good.

I dont see this winter trial as fixing ukf. More reactionary to wc19. :(


They make them more broken in well known unblanced situations. They hole-fraction plays with bad map-design making them bad or OP, because enemy doesn't have the tools to handle without lucky commader, by usesing other stupid OP-stuff.
2 Feb 2020, 09:45 AM
#24
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



And you are the one who said: "And on top of that the mortat pit can 3-4 shot a MHT. A MHT can not 3 shot a mortar pit" in op.


It's just an example not the core theme. The thing is without the incendiary barrage the brit emplacements are extremely inefficient to kill due to brace + repair. It's like tanks but worse cus it comes earlier and zones you out.
2 Feb 2020, 09:48 AM
#25
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

I think we should try 10% first.

For wehr, there is no leig gun. And in 2v2, it is expensive to go for flame ht.

2 Feb 2020, 09:51 AM
#26
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



MHT also hard counter bofor.
17pdr is a completely different story, it cost way more.
As far as we all know, MHT already hard counter 2 out of 3 UKF's core emplacements. Asking more is very nonsense.

MHT would hard counter bofor but the Mortar pit keeps protecting it (This is where your mortar pit 3 shooting a MHT came from, just to be clear it can doesn't mean it does).

17 lbr cost no more than B4's, ML20's or LeFH's. But all of those can be taken out with flanking infantry/snipers/one click off maps/also mortar HT(both us and ost variants) and they are doctrinal. That is no justification.
2 Feb 2020, 09:51 AM
#27
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

I only see hope by overwork the hole emplacement situation.

a. make the mortar-pit a doctrinal unit of def.-commander.
b. give Brits normal mortar-squads with reload-deficites.
c. let them able to be garrison in trenches, give them 100 range and normal reload in trenches.

But that will not happen... so be lucky by having a bad fraction.
2 Feb 2020, 09:54 AM
#28
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



It take about 2 year for the mod team to finally trying to fix UKF.


Ahhhh..... Are we playing the same game it has been like 6-7 months since the section nerf. Before that Brits were OP.
2 Feb 2020, 10:01 AM
#29
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1


Ahhhh..... Are we playing the same game it has been like 6-7 months since the section nerf. Before that Brits were OP.


Do i have to explain to you how the "fix" word mean ?
2 Feb 2020, 10:03 AM
#30
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Ah, the typical screaming murder about patchnotes without actually testing any of it. How surprising.
2 Feb 2020, 10:06 AM
#31
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



Do i have to explain to you how the "fix" word mean ?

They were fixed. The mod team is just going to unfix them. Cus i would understand this nerf if the brits did not got their offense buffed too. But the fact is that's not the case. It's seems like an overbuff + making a niche unit useless.
2 Feb 2020, 10:06 AM
#32
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1


The fact that you don't really have to micro it, the fact it fires 2 shots vs 1. Your, question is not really relevant.


You can't micro the pit a lot, but you have to micro the rest of your army to protect it from being destroyed. The mortar HT you can just move with your army. Both units require micro, just not is the same way.
2 Feb 2020, 10:14 AM
#33
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

Ah, the typical screaming murder about patchnotes without actually testing any of it. How surprising.

Dude in a real game MHT don't 1 tap any emplacements, Otherwise people would not need to use leFH's to counter heavy uses of emplacements. And this feels unnecessary. Buffing the attack potential of sections to the level of grens on top of giving them better territory holding capability just seems excessive.
I know you said somewhere that MHT(specifically leIG cus you know ost don't exist to you guys at the mod team apparently) with incendiary barrage kill very fast but in real scenarios that never happens cus regular shot don't do much damage and braced structures can just be repaired faster then they receive damage.
2 Feb 2020, 10:15 AM
#34
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392


Update your game, you seem to be 3 years behind.


How?
Both axis factions have stock units to hardcounter them from safe distance.
Both axis factions have early game doctrinal option to ROFLSTOMP them.

Its only OP if you refuse to counter it.


Emplacements are unpleasent to play against, but to say they are overpowered is plain bullshit at this point.


In 1vs1 you are right, who is talking about 1vs1 only? I don't go deeper into it, because you know you have a very narrow-minded view over game-modes and you love to talk about 1vs1 only, while I try to have a bridged view.

Brits have a very bad design to handle different that.
2 Feb 2020, 10:17 AM
#35
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1


They were fixed. The mod team is just going to unfix them. Cus i would understand this nerf if the brits did not got their offense buffed too. But the fact is that's not the case. It's seems like an overbuff + making a niche unit useless.


Did you test it ? If didn't, please do it before. flame barrage is not removed, it just no longer do ADDITIONAL damage vs emplacements, so now instead of outright burn any emplacement to dust, they do consistent damage like any other flame weapons.
2 Feb 2020, 10:22 AM
#36
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392



Did you test it ? If didn't, please do it before. flame barrage is not removed, it just no longer do ADDITIONAL damage vs emplacements, so now instead of outright burn any emplacement to dust, they do consistent damage like any other flame weapons.


That is true, but in some situations (larger multiplayer) sim-city is still a thing and then fire is needed.

Emplacment's balance is difficult story, still cancer and still bad, Brits destroyed the game.
2 Feb 2020, 10:24 AM
#37
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



Did you test it ? If didn't, please do it before. flame barrage is not removed, it just no longer do ADDITIONAL damage vs emplacements, so now instead of outright burn any emplacement to dust, they do consistent damage like any other flame weapons.

I'll tell you what happens in a real game now. They brace + repair cus that 10% remaining hp mean regular shot (which when braced does next to nothing) need to kill the thing. And the emplacements gets fully repaired before the cooldown for the next barrage ends.
2 Feb 2020, 10:27 AM
#38
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Dude in a real game MHT don't 1 tap any emplacements, Otherwise people would not need to use leFH's to counter heavy uses of emplacements. And this feels unnecessary. Buffing the attack potential of sections to the level of grens on top of giving them better territory holding capability just seems excessive.
I know you said somewhere that MHT(specifically leIG cus you know ost don't exist to you guys at the mod team apparently) with incendiary barrage kill very fast but in real scenarios that never happens cus regular shot don't do much damage and braced structures can just be repaired faster then they receive damage.

It's seems like an overbuff + making a niche unit useless.



Oh please.

In Live
Damage to mortar pit, with brace used, and damage to unbraced Bofors:



In Winter Preview Mod
Damage to mortar pit, with brace used, and damage to unbraced Bofors:




A total damage reduction of around 10%. Imagine dealing only 80% damage with a single 35 munitions barrage instead of dealing 90%! Oh, how useless the incendiary barrage will be now indeed!


Seriously, the mod is available for a reason. Go actually test things before making an unfounded fuss about the notes.
2 Feb 2020, 10:28 AM
#39
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Its not about how useless the ability will be, but how cancer emplacments still are.
2 Feb 2020, 10:28 AM
#40
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I agree with Sander93, this really isn’t much of an issue.
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