Winter balance (1/2020) feedback OKW

let´s talk about the "Panther" Command Tank.

i would like to see more in 1v1 tank.
i would like to recommend to add heat shell and critical repair, not in a commander tech tree...but only in a tank.

love this idea

let´s talk about the "Panther" Command Tank.

i would like to see more in 1v1 tank.
i would like to recommend to add heat shell and critical repair, not in a commander tech tree...but only in a tank.

A tank that combines mark target and heat rounds does not sound like a good idea...

A tank that combines mark target and heat rounds does not sound like a good idea...

i respect your opinion..but i wanna see panther command tank again.
and make it like a another heavy tank...make no sense...

the ideia about my suggestion its make a special anti tank

i respect your opinion..but i wanna see panther command tank again.
and make it like a another heavy tank...make no sense...

the ideia about my suggestion its make a special anti tank

I respect your opinion also but the problem has more to do with Tiger being OP and less with C.Panther being UP. C. Panther could use some changes or a redesigning to make it more attractive but getting "heat rounds" is a step in the wrong direction.

I respect your opinion also but the problem has more to do with Tiger being OP and less with C.Panther being UP. C. Panther could use some changes or a redesigning to make it more attractive but getting "heat rounds" is a step in the wrong direction.

Commando Panther is really not worth the price atm and the unit has an identity crisis.
Thats why i really like Itaperuna's idea of making the Commando Panther a real AT specialist.
Take away the aura bonus and redesign the unit as "Panther Ace".

You have good point in saying that HEAT rounds AND mark target would be too much though.
What i would like see would be an ability that would give better reload times for the Panther.

Lets gather some ideas here to make the Commando Panther better, maybe some of them can make it to the comming patch.

Another option: Spotting Scopes

A tank that combines mark target and heat rounds does not sound like a good idea...

*Laughs in 2015 Commanther* The days when Coordinated Fire had 50% damage bonus were a terrifying one for allied tanks. I distinctly recall a situation where I was outnumbered 3 or 4-1 by Comets to the Commanther and they were scared off after one was killed during a slug-out. I'm sure allied players complained massively about C.F. 2015 being OP which is why the 25% version exists today. That and 320 -> 260 frontal armor means that its armor can feel like paper sometimes.

Now, I can do the same today with C.F. but I can't make that ISU-152 vaporise quite as quickly. I also don't see the fear in 4v4s any more.

Commando Panther is really not worth the price atm and the unit has an identity crisis.
Thats why i really like Itaperuna's idea of making the Commando Panther a real AT specialist.
Take away the aura bonus and redesign the unit as "Panther Ace".

You have good point in saying that HEAT rounds AND mark target would be too much though.
What i would like see would be an ability that would give better reload times for the Panther.

Lets gather some ideas here to make the Commando Panther better, maybe some of them can make it to the comming patch.

Another option: Spotting Scopes

The Commanther does not need a spotting scope bonus as it has 50 sight range by default - which means that if it can see you, it can shoot you. It also sees further than most TDs by standard. It is difficult to overstate the value of having 15 more sight range over the standard Panther. TDs struggle to hit you in the Fog of War while you have perfect sight on them. Ambushes become almost impossible to do, and the usual infantry blob run up simply does not work when you get early warning of them coming. An ***hole using a tank to bodyblock your tank and to make it lose sight of that (reversing) Katyusha? Doesn't happen.

However, at the end of the day it has the worst direct veterancy gains, has a very pricey fuel tag and on its own will struggle in the hands of all but an extremely experienced player. The aura is fantastic....but of limited use until you get a second vehicle (Panther) to join along. That's asking a lot for the most fuel expensive faction out there.

tl;dr I think the Commanther's in a good place right now.

The Commanther does not need a spotting scope bonus as it has 50 sight range by default - which means that if it can see you, it can shoot you.

I thought the sight was nerfed in one of the last patches? Correct me if im wrong.

I thought the sight was nerfed in one of the last patches? Correct me if im wrong.

It was nerfed... From 55 to 50.

It was nerfed... From 55 to 50.

Strange, I could have sworn it was 50 in 2015. I'll take your word for it. I was working under the assumption in 2015 that it was 50 as well.

I will still not use Spec Ops after the Tiger nerf because other doctrines simply provide more. Using a doctrine just to get a slightly better Panther and recon flares is not worth it.

I will still not use Spec Ops after the Tiger nerf because other doctrines simply provide more. Using a doctrine just to get a slightly better Panther and recon flares is not worth it.

I think people underestimate how good the improved Radio Silence is. Sprinting (+20% speed) IR STG44 Obersoldaten or just Volks blobs can easily flank and wipe things on retreat, (Command) Panther(s) can ambush enemy tanks on flanks, sprinting Sturmpioneers can keep up with the tanks during an assault for minesweeping. Units can get back to the front a lot quicker. It's only 40 munitions so it can be spammed almost continuously. Enemies usually have no idea they're being flanked before it's already too late. Flares are amongst the best recon in the game and the Infiltration Grenades are always handy. The Command Panther is still a good unit with self spotting, a powerful aura and its Coordinated Fire makes it good at fighting heavies. For a mere 8% higher cost than a regular Panther.

I've been messing around with it lately and found it's very powerful, at least in 3v3 and 4v4.
Very underrated commander.

SpecOps still the best support commander in 3v3 or 4v4，but make IRstg be call-in unit to scout unit or increase sight to 50 and give ober camouflage will better，and maybe give commander panther HE shell like Sherman？

Just stating they overlap is worthless, you're not a high level 1v1 player.

Dude, Arrigo Sacchi - the great Italian manager of AC Milan during their dominant spell in the late 80’s and early 90s - was a shoe salesman and bound to fail as a coach because, well, he didn’t have the "requisite experience as a player."

Sacchi’s response to this:
“I never realised that one has to be the horse in order to be the jockey.”

The same quote could come from Gregg Popovich (winning 5 NBA rings with the Spurs),
Phil Jackson - a role player but great coach (winning 11 rings with 2 franchises) or Jürgen KLopp who was only a 2nd division player (and a bad one).
There are more than enough examples of analysts, coaches, managers who are great in what their doing without having being a great player. There are also A LOT of great players who suck as managers and coaches. And there are great managers/coaches who were great players too (Cruyff, Zidane, Guardiola etc.)

What does that tell us? It should always be about the quality of the argument on this forum and not about the "rank".
You post good arguments on this forum but i absolutely dislike the elitist behavior. I dont think that you need this "you are no top level player", "show me your player card" bullshit. Let your arguments speak for themselves because they are good.

Here's some useful feedback for you: You don't get to say "x is y because I say so" so provide proof or don't state anything at all. In plain English: Had you said "I saw X player(s) say this on stream about the Command Panther overlapping the Tiger" would have been acceptable. Just stating they overlap is worthless, you're not a high level 1v1 player.

And I keep saying 1v1 because buffing the Cmd Panther only means a 1v1 buff that won't affect teamgames since the doctrine is fine in teamgames.

Sander isn't a highly ranked 1v1 player either but his knowledge is pretty indisputable. And vipper isn't that far off. I would say that the tiger completely overlaps the c panther though, there isn't any doubt about that.

Tiger is anti everything meta and most people pick it every game, while less than 0.5% of the playerbase picks Spec Ops in a 1v1 anymore.

Just a heads up, the 1v1 playerbase is also a pretty small percentage of the overall playerbase. It's literally the least popular game mode

Seems pretty relevant given that Sander has pointed out its still a solid commander in team games

Just a heads up, the 1v1 playerbase is also a pretty small percentage of the overall playerbase. It's literally the least popular game mode

Seems pretty relevant given that Sander has pointed out its still a solid commander in team games

I already said any buff to the Cmd Panther is 1v1 oriented. Please read thoroughly.