Winter balance (1/2020) feedback - Ostheer

If finale Tech tree change will be true，I hope balance P4.J and commander P4 and PUMA request too

Yeah the relief infantry and conscription abilities are absolutely worthless trash. They've both been nerfed to the ground.

I have to agree.
While the original idea was nice, it just does not work that well in the game. If you max it out, you exchange MUN for MP at a rate of 1:~4, which is usually a good deal. But often you do not want two additional infantry units, because they will just block your build. And since loosing units is a big deal, you cannot sacrifice units the already vetted units (for example in order to surprise your opponent with a quick second wave).

I suggest reworking this ability (if possible) to reduce reinforcement costs. For example, if we say in a bigger fight usually 10-15 infantry models die (4-5 Gren/Pio squads lose 3 models each plus maybe some support unit models) then the reinforcement cost would be a bit more than 300 MP. If the ability would give a 50% cost reduction (just an example) it would save ~150 MP which would suggest a price of about 35-50 MUN.

Make the ability last for a minute or so, that's enough to limit it to usually one fight only per squad. Adjust the CD accordingly, so that it cannot be spammed.

Advantages: You can activate it when you need it and don't need to remember to click the button when you get overrun. Unit preservation is still promoted, you don't get squads that you might not need. It helps you from the mid game onwards to save some MP and could help bleed heavy factions like OST to reduce that.

There are side effects from this (for example it would not work that well with Osttruppen or Conscript builds) and a lot of other stuff, but all in all it could be a nice idea. As of now, the ability is not used anyways, so unless it goes super OP, there's nothing to lose.

I have to agree.
While the original idea was nice, it just does not work that well in the game. ..

I agree but I made different proposal, the duration is increased but the ability provides "new" with target size 1 that can merge but not reinforce. This make them ideal to provide in reinforcement to the front and re crew support weapons.

I suggest reworking this ability (if possible) to reduce reinforcement costs. For example, if we say in a bigger fight usually 10-15 infantry models die (4-5 Gren/Pio squads lose 3 models each plus maybe some support unit models) then the reinforcement cost would be a bit more than 300 MP. If the ability would give a 50% cost reduction (just an example) it would save ~150 MP which would suggest a price of about 35-50 MUN.

Make the ability last for a minute or so, that's enough to limit it to usually one fight only per squad. Adjust the CD accordingly, so that it cannot be spammed.

Advantages: You can activate it when you need it and don't need to remember to click the button when you get overrun. Unit preservation is still promoted, you don't get squads that you might not need. It helps you from the mid game onwards to save some MP and could help bleed heavy factions like OST to reduce that.

There are side effects from this (for example it would not work that well with Osttruppen or Conscript builds) and a lot of other stuff, but all in all it could be a nice idea. As of now, the ability is not used anyways, so unless it goes super OP, there's nothing to lose.

that would be a fantastic rework of the ability it gives a lot of choice and impact on the situation. I'd surely play that commander again with a change like that.

I don't agree with the tech cost change. More expensive T3 delays Stug E and Puma by 15 fuel, and the T4 change will delay Tiger by 10 fuel. Skipping medium tanks for Tiger will cost 25 more fuel.

Because I think the Tiger is by far the best T4 unit, the tech change will probably be an overall nerf.

I don't agree with the tech cost change. More expensive T3 delays Stug E and Puma by 15 fuel, and the T4 change will delay Tiger by 10 fuel. Skipping medium tanks for Tiger will cost 25 more fuel.

Because I think the Tiger is by far the best T4 unit, the tech change will probably be an overall nerf.

The Tiger part is intended to impede the current heavy-only meta.
OST and SOV pay the least teching cost for their heavies compared to the other three factions, so they need some price increase on their heavies. If other units can be slightly rebalanced by that, that's a win-win.

But yes, StuG E and Puma are left in the dust a little bit.

I agree but I made different proposal, the duration is increased but the ability provides "new" with target size 1 that can merge but not reinforce. This make them ideal to provide in reinforcement to the front and re crew support weapons.

I remember that, but that would require a new type of squad which will likely cause multiple new bugs and issues. Also it's probably quite fiddly to use and requires even more micro. I'm not saying it is a completely bad or thematically illogical idea, but I think there are better solutions.

The Tiger part is intended to impede the current heavy-only meta.
OST and SOV pay the least teching cost for their heavies compared to the other three factions, so they need some price increase on their heavies. If other units can be slightly rebalanced by that, that's a win-win.

But yes, StuG E and Puma are left in the dust a little bit.

If the intent is to nerf Tiger, then I can kinda see the point. The patch notes could contain a note about it to make the intent clear.

One reason I find T4 hard to use is building the structure itself. I think it takes about 40-45s to build, which takes time from planting and sweeping mines, and repairing tanks. One soft way to improve T4 could be shortening the build time slightly.

Speaking of Soviets, is there a plan to increase the tech cost for IS2?

XP values have been adjusted accordingly.

PLS elaborate on this change. Does that mean that total CP gain for building and teching remain the same?

Puma became even in more bad spot with new price for tech to BF2

can you guys fix the hulldown string that says "additional defense and damage" when it's defense + range that you get.

Copying from main thread:

I dislike the Grenadier reinforcement change because it homogenizes the factions. I also prefer when reinforcement costs are consistently 50% of the entity's initial cost.

So, instead, I'd recommend improving their cost-effectiveness by increasing their firepower. It has the added benefit of scaling control. You could increase rifle DPS for early game, or MG DPS for late.

Infantry sections reinforcement cost is already below 50%, please don’t make stuff up, IS would cost 34 to reinforce otherwise, and they are even more cost efficient with bolster

Infantry sections are not OP, so not having reinforcement cost at 50% divided by # of models is fine.