Locking OKW Tiger behind all SWS is super unfair

yes It is, also you are over looking the fact the IS2 is crap, cant even go toe to toe with a panther, plus Its stuck behind crap commander choices.

Really dude?
Possessed by spirit of ritter or something?

IS2 is so bad it wins tournament after tournament after tournament.

Yes so bad. Please buff IS2 armour to 400 and give 2 second reload.

Thank you balance team.

and which dream world did that happen?

Soo.. is this locking behind structure still real for OKW?

Totally unfair.

Unless okw Tiger comes with panzer commander default and can also upgrade to pintle mg. It is too costly. lol

Soviets for IS2= 10+15+80+90- 20 starting fuel = 175 fuel

I know this is just a nitpick but,
It's 10+10+85+90-20 = 175.
This change is DUM cus the IS 2 us 10cp not 9 so it is really doing is pushing it back 10f 1cp.

Yeah because manpower is the limiting factor in who can get a heavy tank earlier

Well sovs are the most no starved faction so it might take an effect on timing.

Soo.. is this locking behind structure still real for OKW?

Totally unfair.

Unless okw Tiger comes with panzer commander default and can also upgrade to pintle mg. It is too costly. lol

Yes. It's a desperately needed tech barrier between medium and heavy armour.

The Soviet barrier is proportionally too small, but that just means it needs making bigger somehow.

Soviet could use a specific upgrade on T4 costing the relevant amount of fuel and manpower to hit the cost for other factions.
At the moment Soviet Tiers are correctly priced for what they deliver.

I think both SOV and OST should need to pay extra for a heavy.
Corrent me if I'm wrong, but they both need to gain 205 fuel if I calculated correctly, while all other factions need to gain about 250 for full tech (including all side techs, medic etc)

EDIT: Just realized this is phrased ambiguously: What I mean is that SOV and OST should have an additional tech to unlock heavies as a call in, not to make the tanks themselves more expensive.

I think both SOV and OST should need to pay extra for a heavy.
Corrent me if I'm wrong, but they both need to gain 205 fuel if I calculated correctly, while all other factions need to gain about 250 for full tech (including all side techs, medic etc)

Both ost and sov dont get extras with tech. No free units, forward retreat points, non doc superheavy or base arty pieces.

So i personaly dont see why they should pay the same to be able to go get a heavy.

Both ost and sov dont get extras with tech. No free units, forward retreat points, non doc superheavy or base arty pieces.

So i personaly dont see why they should pay the same to be able to go get a heavy.

It's because the current heavies behave like they're a tier up from light vehicles. Without a tech barrier, they kill off the mediums they're sharing a tier with.

It's like sticking the Panzer IV in OKW Mechanized. It'd kill the Luchs stone dead.

It's because the current heavies behave like they're a tier up from light vehicles. Without a tech barrier, they kill off the mediums they're sharing a tier with.

It's like sticking the Panzer IV in OKW Mechanized. It'd kill the Luchs stone dead.

Then increase the price of the heavies for sov and ost a bit but still keep the total cost less the wfa and ukf.

Both ost and sov dont get extras with tech. No free units, forward retreat points, non doc superheavy or base arty pieces.

So i personaly dont see why they should pay the same to be able to go get a heavy.

While I partially agree, your argument is way to simplified, but sometimes also wrong.

UKF base arty behaves like an offmap ability, not like a unit. The USF FRP costs constant POP and thereby MP income (although relatively less), both factions get a complete rooster of units already while teching up, but also lack no important role in the late game (UKF lacks mortar, UKF rocket arty, OKW a cheap and durable AI vehicle as some examples). SOV and OST medics don't cost fuel if you just look at fuel economy.

If we just count the tech structures, SOV and UKF slightly underpay, OKW slightly overpays. But then OST and OKW DO get "free stuff" for teching. Snares, grenades, weapon improvements. All the nice stuff that often is gated behind side techs for Allies (depending on the faction obviously). Not to say that the weapon rack unlock is identical to Grens being able to get LMGs (the racks are better and should cost more), but since you apparently oppose the fact that we should compare full techs, many factions would lack some vital parts.

The other point that Lago already mentioned is that heavies should be balanced against each other just like mediums. Giving some factions earlier access to heavies than others just creates more issues and solves none.

Then increase the price of the heavies for sov and ost a bit but still keep the total cost less the wfa and ukf.

This would make the cost performance of their tanks worse than others. So if you want to replace your heavy, you would be punished more than other factions for losing the tank.

If you're fine with delaying heavy tanks for SOV and OST, why not just introduce an additional tech to gate them off?

This would make the cost performance of their tanks worse than others. So if you want to replace your heavy, you would be punished more than other factions for losing the tank.

If you're fine with delaying heavy tanks for SOV and OST, why not just introduce an additional tech to gate them off?

Yes, Ost and Soviets would need an additional side-tech in their T4 building that allows them to call in a heavy tank. For Soviets it would cost around 50 fuel. Not sure what the numbers are for Ost, I guess something relatively similar.

Yes, Ost and Soviets would need an additional side-tech in their T4 building that allows them to call in a heavy tank. For Soviets it would cost around 50 fuel. Not sure what the numbers are for Ost, I guess something relatively similar.

Well just counting fuel OST and SOV should both pay 45 fuel. But this also only works if SOV is forced to get molotovs and AT grenades, otherwise it should be more expensive.

Well just counting fuel OST and SOV should both pay 45 fuel. But this also only works if SOV is forced to get molotovs and AT grenades, otherwise it should be more expensive.

Why? if you decide to not go molotov or atnade, that's a drawback you're assuming to take

Why? if you decide to not go molotov or atnade, that's a drawback you're assuming to take

If you go for Conscripts that is true, but SOV have two viable playstyles. If you go for a T1 build, you do not need molotovs and an AT package.

Why? if you decide to not go molotov or atnade, that's a drawback you're assuming to take

What if you go penals?

This would make the cost performance of their tanks worse than others. So if you want to replace your heavy, you would be punished more than other factions for losing the tank.

If you're fine with delaying heavy tanks for SOV and OST, why not just introduce an additional tech to gate them off?

Yeah i get your point now. I would put all callin/doctrinal heavies behind heavy tank tech except kv1 and most likely kv8 as well. Kv1 is just a tankier t34 76. Kv8 while absolutly leathel to inf and teamweapons is no big threat vs tanks. It can fight a p4 but nothing bigger afik.