COH2 winter balance mod - discussion

Version 1.1 Changes

Heavy Tanks

Pershing, KV-2, IS-2, Tiger

• CP requirement from 11 to 12
  
• Reverted previous tech requirements from version 1.0
  

Ostheer

Tech Changes

Sentiment suggests that Ostheer tier 4 is too prohibitive to use. In order to facilitate an easier transition for Ostheer T3 to T4 builds, we have implemented the following:

• Battlephase 2 tech from 90 fuel to 105 fuel
  
• Battlephase 3 tech from 25 fuel to 35
  
• Support Armour Korp (T3) no longer has a fuel cost
  
• Heavy Panzer Korp (T4) building no longer has a fuel cost
  

XP values have been adjusted accordingly.

Credit to Derbyhat AKA Jibberjabber for originally proposing this change.

Grenadiers

• Reinforce cost from 30 to 28
  

Pak 40

• Horizontal tracking speed from 12 to 14
  

Brummbar

• Armour from 240 to 260
  

Panzerfaust - all variants, including OKW

The speed of the Panzerfaust projectiles being lowered as an attempt to remove the issue of Panzerfausts occasionally missing their targets.

• Projectile speed from 55 to 25
  

Brits

HQ Glider

• Cost from 450 to 390
  
• Forward HQ Retreat Point and Medics must now be researched for 150 manpower.
  

Airlanding Officer

The officer is having the cost of his recon run increased to match his counterpart, the USF Major.

• Recon run cost from 35 to 50
  

Soviets

ZiS-3/SU-76 Barrage

This change puts the barrage from ZiS-3 weapons inline with other direct-fire weapons and mortars that receive penalties when striking units in heavy cover.

• Heavy cover damage modifier from 1 to 0.5
  

Airborne Weapon Crate Drop

• Price from 45 to 60
  

OKW

Sturmtiger

• Grenade deflection damage removed
  

Bug Fixes

• Airlanding Officer should now be able to pick up bren guns.
  
• Airlanding Officer reinforce cost fixed.
  
• Fixed Infantry Section cost on reinforce; should now be back to 270/28
  
• Fixed an issue where the British medic build time was too long at 45s; now is 21
  

Source: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/287312#Comment_287312

Tech Changes

Sentiment suggests that Ostheer tier 4 is too prohibitive to use. In order to facilitate an easier transition for Ostheer T3 to T4 builds, we have implemented the following:

Battlephase 2 tech from 90 fuel to 105 fuel
Battlephase 3 tech from 25 fuel to 35
Support Armour Korp (T3) no longer has a fuel cost
Heavy Panzer Korp (T4) building no longer has a fuel cost


XP values have been adjusted accordingly.

Credit to Derbyhat AKA Jibberjabber for originally proposing this change.

Grenadiers

Reinforce cost from 30 to 28


Imo this is the epitome of power creep.

1) Continuing to buff grenadier instead of nerfing other units that already have been overbuffed.
2) Making Ostheer tech cheaper instead of nerfing the units that make T4 unit mediocre.

The approach so far is to make more powerful unit earlier which in return force unit with limited window of opportunity to be buffed so they become worth the investment or become obsolete.

Imo it time to decide what is the desire time frame for is stage of the game:
infatry phase
Lv phase
Medium tank phase
Post medium, end tech phase
and stick to that timing.

KV-2 had its projectile sped up, because its supposed to fight vehicles as well and it couldn't hit them otherwise.

Brummbar projectile speed is in line with any other pure AI vehicle.

Brumbar is not "a pure AI vehicle" else it would not have 140/120/100 penetration and deflection damage.

Feel free to provide the numerical value of speed of the brumbar and other units that in your opinion it is inline with.

1CP extra is a completely pointless nerf.

When is the absolutely game breaking AoE of heavy tanks getting nerfed?

Brumbar is not "a pure AI vehicle" else it would not have 140/120/100 penetration and deflection damage.

Feel free to provide the numerical value of speed of the brumbar and other units that in your opinion it is inline with.

Are you getting Brummbar to deal with vehicles?
Yes or no.

Are you getting Panther to deal with infantry?
It got pretty strong MGs after all and always racks up 10-20 model kills per game.

I do get KV-2 to deal with med tanks as well, because engaging tanks lighter then itself is also its role, previously it was not able to do its job so it got adjusted.

Just because unit can damage something, doesn't mean its meant to engage it.

Brummbar is as much of AT vehicle as panther is AI.

Argue this as much as you like, you aren't changing specialist roles of these two.

Are you getting Brummbar to deal with vehicles?
Yes or no.

The question is irrelevant.

You argued that projectile speed has to do with brumbar being "a pure AI vehicle". It it not (nor there is any rule saying that "pure AI vehicles must have slow projectiles") and the the game would benefit from speeding ti up, thus reducing the micro required for the unit and adjusting units performance if needed.

I do get KV-2 to deal with med tanks as well.

Great to know, does that mean that have played the game recently?

Feel free to argue semantic as much you like, that will not change the fact that faster projectile would be an improvement...

Version 1.1 Changes

Ostheer

Tech Changes

Sentiment suggests that Ostheer tier 4 is too prohibitive to use. In order to facilitate an easier transition for Ostheer T3 to T4 builds, we have implemented the following:

• Battlephase 2 tech from 90 fuel to 105 fuel
  
• Battlephase 3 tech from 25 fuel to 35
  
• Support Armour Korp (T3) no longer has a fuel cost
  
• Heavy Panzer Korp (T4) building no longer has a fuel cost
  

XP values have been adjusted accordingly.

Credit to Derbyhat AKA Jibberjabber for originally proposing this change.

Grenadiers

• Reinforce cost from 30 to 28
  

Pak 40

• Horizontal tracking speed from 12 to 14
  

Brummbar

• Armour from 240 to 260
  

Panzerfaust - all variants, including OKW

The speed of the Panzerfaust projectiles being lowered as an attempt to remove the issue of Panzerfausts occasionally missing their targets.

• Projectile speed from 55 to 25
  

Source: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/287312#Comment_287312

The T4 change must be a joke

15 fu**** Fuel for the most useless Tech in game... well this will change anything of curse.
This will shift the whole Meta game i mean T4 is now complete viable and u got so much value out of ur 15 Fuel .... that must be about what 1-2 mins in game. well well.

Even if u vut that by 60-80 Fuel changes nothing about the unit performence.
so the T4 can lose u the game 1-2 earlier ...well very good.

This is just trash.... "we feel that cons are under perfor.... BUFF 7 Men"
T4 is trash ... Ost gets beat up .... oh here u have 15 Fuel.


The Gren change is medicore... u save maybe 200Mp total in game.
its ok not much but hey... There performence against lategame allied inf IS the problem not the MP bleed... now its just a little bit cheaper to get cut into pieces.

Pak buff is quite nice i dont expecting this.. but well will see what impact that causes.


Brummbar idk if that changes anything. i dont have the numbers on that.
maybe some paks will bounce more or u have to pay for special ammo to pen.

The problem is the heavy micro Tax and the range not the armor.


In conclusion i think .... WTF is the balance Team doing here. ("Jackson nerf 5 Fuel more...")
Its like this:

my opinion on the gren mp change:

Why make the grens cheaper then conscripts? do they performe worse now, sure cons 7 men is a bit overtuned but this aint no reason to make grens cheaper then cons. Meanwhile artillery field officer still costs 30 mp to refresh .

the heavy change: It basically does nothing, they still will murder infantry, if unlucky in 2 shots, basically tiger is better at killing inf then a stupa, and is2 better then kv8 or 2 t34s, while still having a lot of armor and hp, which the other units lack

1.1 patch STILL not nerfing the real problem:
- 60 range TD overperforming (specially SU85 and Jackson).
- Light Vehicles overperforming (specially T70).

Cmon patch team, please address the problem once and for all.

2 MP buff on Gren reinforcement is a real joke, specially when you get 230+ MP per minute.
That "buff" doesnt solve the problem of crap Gren survavility.

Yes hopefully this is only a start. And more is coming regarding 60td out scaling axis t4 in late games

1.1 patch STILL not nerfing the real problem:
- 60 range TD overperforming (specially SU85 and Jackson).
- Light Vehicles overperforming (specially T70).

Cmon patch team, please address the problem once and for all.

Aside from the Jackson overperforming, the rest are neither overperforming nor problematic.

Brumm "buff" is nothing when SU85 and Jackson pens every single shot at 60 range.

Brumm "buff" is nothing when SU85 and Jackson pens every single shot at 60 range.

Its not supposed to go against them, so there is no issue here.
You might have missed it, but no matter how much vipper will argue against it, its anti infantry unit and armor helps against handheld AT tremendously.

Airborne Weapon Crate Drop

• Price from 45 to 60
  

Even though I use airborne, this is a really good nerf. People having 4 SVT cons and a Dshka at the start of the midgame was a big issue.

Brumm "buff" is nothing when SU85 and Jackson pens every single shot at 60 range.

You’re out if your mind. 312 armour at vet 2 finally makes the unit viable.

1CP extra is a completely pointless nerf.

When is the absolutely game breaking AoE of heavy tanks getting nerfed?

Why was ok when only the pershing could do that???

Why was ok when only the pershing could do that???

Ummm, 800 health at 230 fuel rings a bell?
Then it got panther treatment and cost increase now.

Why was ok when only the pershing could do that???

Which part of “heavy tanks” sounds like “Tiger” to you?

Which part of “heavy tanks” sounds like “Tiger” to you?

Why stop at tiger Talk about the IS2 too that thing was sub par before the heavy buff/standardization.

You’re out if your mind. 312 armour at vet 2 finally makes the unit viable.

A year or so ago, brumbar vet 2 have 320 armor.
What made brumbar viable that period was the aoe change doing more damage.

Of course relic than quickly nerfed it before the anniversary 2v2, by reducing its range 40 to 35. And reduce armor to 240 and armor vet2 to 288.

This change only revert the armor nerf, not fully even.

The loss of its range was and is still making it a tough choice. At least against something like 60td Jackson with vet pen/rof