COH2 winter balance mod - discussion

I'm not sure how I feel about nerfing the SU-76. I get that it's a standardisation, but that unit's hardly meta.

Ostheer changes are pretty tame so far. It's definitely a worthwhile edit, but I suspect there's more to come. I may be underestimating the impact of the Grenadier change.

As for the Brummbar, has the mod team considered giving it the KV-2 treatement and accelerating the projectile? It currently needs manual targeting with Attack Ground. If it was faster, that wouldn't be the case.

Yeah, I hope there is a KV2 treatment because the armor buff is hardly enough. I think the gren buff is quite significant which is good for Ost.

UK officer's recon run cost increase is reasonable but still, make it vet 0 abd require company CP.

I'm not sure how I feel about nerfing the SU-76. I get that it's a standardisation, but that unit's hardly meta.

I think it just needs some sort of other buff to make it actually useful. It's as much as a puma but it kind of just sucks.

Airlanding officer unit seems like it's going to be pretty mediocre for being only limited to one. Coming at 4 men as an smg squad at platoon cp timing is sort of just meh, and commando stens aren't a crazy good weapon without camouflage. Seems like they'll just be kind of worse pgrens but limited to one. I'd toy with maybe increasing the limit to at least 2, 3 at max so they don't just get spammed.

I think lategame they'll be fine, and may possibly be kind of OP if they keep the elite brens, which should probably be removed, but they seem kind of mediocre at what they're actually supposed to be doing (filling a cqc role).

Also cromwell is kind of garbage. Could be worth buffing.

Nerf Pfusis in some manor. moving DPS, no more 6 man, 80 muni cost -> 90+ etc. They're so brainless and unfun to play with or against.

nerf panzer tactician

nerf MG bunkers

consider changing the brummbar vet 2 armor buff to a fixed amount bonus instead of % based. If it goes to 260 armor and has a 20%(?) bonus, it goes to 312 at vet 2.

buff the cromwell. It's 120F and doesn't hold a candle to the 110F HE sherman.

Look into Su85 and jackson pen bonuses with vet. They already have some of the best stats in the game, they don't need to have 300+ penetration.

nerf snipers from 1 man army concept

buff the cromwell. It's 120F and doesn't hold a candle to the 110F HE sherman.

Cromwell is 110fu, but still, it perform poorly compare to Sherman.

Nerf Pfusis in some manor. moving DPS, no more 6 man, 80 muni cost -> 90+ etc. They're so brainless and unfun to play with or against.

nerf panzer tactician

nerf MG bunkers

consider changing the brummbar vet 2 armor buff to a fixed amount bonus instead of % based. If it goes to 260 armor and has a 20%(?) bonus, it goes to 312 at vet 2.

buff the cromwell. It's 120F and doesn't hold a candle to the 110F HE sherman.

Look into Su85 and jackson pen bonuses with vet. They already have some of the best stats in the game, they don't need to have 300+ penetration.

nerf snipers from 1 man army concept

I think cromwell has been 110 fuel for some time now.

Nerf Pfusis in some manor. moving DPS, no more 6 man, 80 muni cost -> 90+ etc. They're so brainless and unfun to play with or against.

nerf panzer tactician

nerf MG bunkers

consider changing the brummbar vet 2 armor buff to a fixed amount bonus instead of % based. If it goes to 260 armor and has a 20%(?) bonus, it goes to 312 at vet 2.

buff the cromwell. It's 120F and doesn't hold a candle to the 110F HE sherman.

Look into Su85 and jackson pen bonuses with vet. They already have some of the best stats in the game, they don't need to have 300+ penetration.

nerf snipers from 1 man army concept

Instead they reduced the reinforce cost for grens.

312 armor Brumbar sounds fun. On the topic of that if we keep getting more armor buffs like this there's no chance Pen Bonsues will ever get nerfed D:

Cromwell is 110fu, but still, it perform poorly compare to Sherman.

I think cromwell has been 110 fuel for some time now.

My bad, was the old value.

Look into Su85 and jackson pen bonuses with vet. They already have some of the best stats in the game, they don't need to have 300+ penetration.

Su85 is too cheap for the its penetration.

Make MG bunker gunner die at 50%hp? Also, should be killable by rifles from behind


Edit
Also, I think Cromwell is fine. It’s fast as fucc boiiiiii

If it gets any more buffs the mobility will probably need to come down
as of now, it just doesn’t do very much damage vs infantry, but it can escape any other medium. The combo of high lethality and easy escape... problematic

Increase MG damage(more consistency and ai power), turn off focus fire(so it doesn’t snipe weapon crews) nerf acceleration and speed a bit(less slippery in exchange), and add default overdrive(keep speedy boï identity) would be my choice

Cromwell is 110fu, but still, it perform poorly compare to Sherman.

As I said before all UKF need is the comet to be buffed to pershing levels. Hard to get too but awsome.

Su85 is too cheap for the its penetration.

It also comes later (fule wise) than both Jackson and Firefly. Any more it will be too late.

I dont think Cromwells are worse than Shermans, its speed is good and has good pen on Pz4. Point is Cromwells dont fight Pz4, they fight Panthers, so whats the point to get Cromwell when Brit has FF & Comet.

I have to say I disagree with Grenadiers having a lower reinforcement cost. Their cost made them unique. Why not make them more cost-effective in another way, like RA or better weapons?

(Buffing their rifles or MG42 would also allow for tuning them at different stages of the game)

Pershing, KV-2, IS-2, Tiger

CP requirement from 11 to 12
Reverted previous tech requirements from version 1.0

Would've also liked to see a price increase or performance reduction, but its a step in the right direction.

Battlephase 2 tech from 90 fuel to 105 fuel
Battlephase 3 tech from 25 fuel to 35
Support Armour Korp (T3) no longer has a fuel cost (from 15 fuel)
Heavy Panzer Korp (T4) building no longer has a fuel cost (from 25 fuel)

T2 -> T3 still costs 105 fuel
T2 -> T4 (T3 Skip) still costs 140 fuel
T2 -> T3 -> T4 now costs 140 fuel, down from 155 fuel

Was 15 fuel what was making T4 nonviable, when doing a full build? I think it was more likely the units within the building making it much more situational than T3.

1. The panther is still really expensive; the STUG is more viable as a TD, due to its higher DPS and range than the panther. Additionally, if you do save up the 490mp/180f (iirc), you might as well save the extra 190mp/50f and get a Tiger, as that's a much stronger unit.

2. The brummbar is still going to impose a heavy micro-tax, and even then, it's only really good against blobbers. The P4 and Ostwind are simply better choices, since they're cheaper, arrive earlier, and don't require manually firing every shot. Also, axis doesn't need a "bunker buster", either. This update does increase its armor by 20, but I don't think that makes it a better choice (in most cases) than a P4 or Ostwind.

3. The P.Werfer is still going to be situational. It's good against static infantry and support weapons, but because the rockets always take a long time to hit, using it against moving infantry is tricky; you can't use it point-blank like a katyusha or caliope.

Grenadiers
Reinforce cost from 30 to 28

This will actually make a pretty big difference over time; I'm looking forward to trying this.

Pak 40
Horizontal tracking speed from 12 to 14

Brummbar
Armour from 240 to 260

Both good changes, although minor. The Pak chance should be nice, but I don't think the Brummbar change will do all that much. The main issue right now is its high micro tax.

Panzerfaust Projectile speed from 55 to 25

Won't this cause issues where the target is hit by the projectile incredibly far away? That could be frustrating for both sides - Axis, since the vehicle still got away, and allies, since it got hit by seemingly nothing (the time between firing and hit will be 2x longer).

UKF Changes

These all seem pretty good.

Sov Changes

These seem pretty good, too.

I'm not sure how I feel about nerfing the SU-76. I get that it's a standardisation, but that unit's hardly meta

Standardization, but it's also to fix 2+ Zis-3s being able to annihilate basically anything static. It was really annoying, and clearly unintended design.

Yeah, I hope there is a KV2 treatment because the armor buff is hardly enough. I think the gren buff is quite significant which is good for Ost.

KV-2 had its projectile sped up, because its supposed to fight vehicles as well and it couldn't hit them otherwise.

Brummbar projectile speed is in line with any other pure AI vehicle.

Yep the faust change could make t70 or scout car or wc51 escape far enough before getting engine damage. Anybody tested it yet?

Still not touching any of the really problematic and cancerous units of the current patch. Very unfortunate that the balance team is so stubborn despite so many people asking for changes.

If the patch went live as it is right now literally nothing would change to the current meta.

Unless the balance team finally nerfs the AOE of heavy tanks we will continue having heavy tanks in almost every game because they are just too good and on top of that come in doctrines that offer other strong abilities/units.

Making Ost tech cheaper seems unnecessary and I don't really understand what the point of it is. Ost T4 is already ridiculously cheap in the live-game. The reason why it isn't used as much in 1v1 is because of the units being mediocre.

I don't understand the Pak 40 buff either. It performs fine in the current patch and no one asked for it to be buffed. I don't see what this is going to accomplish.

Making Grenadiers 28MP to reinforce is good. That's a fair change.

Airborne weapon crate to 60 muni is a good change.

Brummbär armour to 260 is a good change.

Still not touching any of the really problematic and cancerous units of the current
Airborne weapon crate to 60 muni is a good change.

I would be good if penals get something else though. Maybe dp's from the weapon crates instead of ppsh. Since they don't have nade/smoke and have to sacrifice mid-long range performance doesn't seem like a good upgrade.

Something tells me soviet airborne change will kill any use of the doctrine, given its extremely muni heavy and soviets are 2nd most muni heavy faction in game, given how walking is the only thing that doesn't cost a ton of muni(unless you want to walk fast for a bit, then it does).