COH2 winter balance mod - discussion

Feedback to brits:

1. Infantry Section
I feel like double both (target size and moving accuracy) maybe too much. Not early game when they have 4 men but later, at stage of 5 men - not to meansion when they will be equipt with 2x bren. I think we should let one of those buffs go OR make medic/pyro upgrade requiring 1 weapon slot. If not i fear we will see old Tommies blob back. Smoke idea is great. I would also look at the unit price. I think there is a bug there.
Is there anyway to buff them when they are 4 men and not when they are 5 men?

2. Assault IS
Sound okey. I would think about visual changes and maybe sound changes if possible. I think their phos. nade should require a mils nade upgrade.

3. Tank Hunter Infantry Section
I think they should have something extra. I would allow them to upgrade with special late game AT weapon. Like a paratroopers can have a better zooks i would do the same with UKF. I would make additional Piat upgrade after reaching T3 to better fight medium tanks. Right now this unit looses his point after killing all enemy light vehicules.

4. Assault Officer (Previously Was Airlanding Officer)
- there is a bug that unit can pick up bren but unit isn't shows up. Plus there isn't restriction to 2 weapons. Plus unit doesn't shows up from HQ but comes off map.
- they kinda weak at vet0 but performs really well at vet3 (don;t think are OP). Hard to say if that should be the unit strength to scale in time. If not i would move some vet 2/3 buffs to vet0 becouse at start they can loose vs sturmpio although they cost more.
I wonder if recon pass should stay?

5. Universal Carrier - buffing armor for WASP is really good idea. Love it.

6. HQ Glider
Ok, here i have the biggest issue so far. Why for that small price i have so much stuff? Commandos squad for free, FRP for free without needing T3. I would say: add option to repair and add 30 fuel cost. FRP require T3. Becouse currently it's waaaaay to good for it cost. Let me remind that Inflitration commando squad with 3 men costs 350 MP so only 100 mp less.
To diverse it from a commando regiment, make it less similar i would be for:
- commando squad for a AT commando squad with special piats,
- mortar squad with a commando crew (like rangers zooks) - another way to get indirect fire option,

If not the vanguard commander will be way better than other commanders. It gives cheap commandos with FRP, universal strafe and Croc. That's way to good combo.


7. Medics in HQ.
Interesting idea although brits can already build a Forward HQ with upgradable medics which works the same as ostheer. I often see players like tightrope using it. With medics buildable i really think med pack for Tommies should take 1 weapon slot to prevent masive 2 bren, 5 men IS blob. You want deadly, a-moving blob, then get a healing in a diffrent form.

Feedback to brits:

1. Infantry Section
I feel like double both (target size and moving accuracy) maybe too much. Not early game when they have 4 men but later, at stage of 5 men - not to meansion when they will be equipt with 2x bren. I think we should let one of those buffs go OR make medic/pyro upgrade requiring 1 weapon slot. If not i fear we will see old Tommies blob back. Smoke idea is great. I would also look at the unit price. I think there is a bug there.
Is there anyway to buff them when they are 4 men and not when they are 5 men?

Maybe RA to 0.8 both in/out cover but moving acc stay 0.3.
Or 0.8 RA as 4 man, 0.85/0.9 out of cover when become 5 man but still 0,8 in cover (more men = bigger target size seem prety logic). That and moving acc to 0.4

3. Tank Hunter Infantry Section
I think they should have something extra. I would allow them to upgrade with special late game AT weapon. Like a paratroopers can have a better zooks i would do the same with UKF. I would make additional Piat upgrade after reaching T3 to better fight medium tanks. Right now this unit looses his point after killing all enemy light vehicules.

give them critical shoot like siper at vet, or an AT nade barrage like AT consript.

4. Assault Officer (Previously Was Airlanding Officer)
- there is a bug that unit can pick up bren but unit isn't shows up. Plus there isn't restriction to 2 weapons. Plus unit doesn't shows up from HQ but comes off map.
- they kinda weak at vet0 but performs really well at vet3 (don;t think are OP). Hard to say if that should be the unit strength to scale in time. If not i would move some vet 2/3 buffs to vet0 becouse at start they can loose vs sturmpio although they cost more.
I wonder if recon pass should stay?

officer model should have a thompson instead of silenced sten, 5th man move to vet 1, recon to vet 0 but locked behind company CP, make it weaker at vet 0 but improved with vet like major.

7. Medics in HQ.
Interesting idea although brits can already build a Forward HQ with upgradable medics which works the same as ostheer. I often see players like tightrope using it. With medics buildable i really think med pack for Tommies should take 1 weapon slot to prevent masive 2 bren, 5 men IS blob. You want deadly, a-moving blob, then get a healing in a diffrent form.

forward base is expensive and take long time to build, so HQ medic is handy.
make medic work like soviet, 2 medic at HQ, + 1 medic for each tech building for total of 5.

And, i know this maybe too much but please consider add valentine inplace of boffor.

7. Medics in HQ.
Interesting idea although brits can already build a Forward HQ with upgradable medics which works the same as ostheer. I often see players like tightrope using it. With medics buildable i really think med pack for Tommies should take 1 weapon slot to prevent masive 2 bren, 5 men IS blob. You want deadly, a-moving blob, then get a healing in a diffrent form.

The Forward Assembly was considered, but takes very long to build, isn't meant to be used as a base structure (it's in the name) and I don't think it should be encouraged to build a massive silly looking structure in the HQ sector (the Ostheer bunker at least kind of fits in).

The medic squad has been introduced to give the UKF an easier time healing up their support weapons and squads. However, we are well aware of the possible consequences for Infantry Sections if they'd no longer require the healing upgrade and we want to avoid this. The idea is that the medics should ultimately be finetuned to serve only as a "doable" addition to occasionally heal up a Sapper or team weapon squad, but shouldn't heal fast enough to completely replace the IS healing upgrade. This is why it's a medic squad in the first place rather than automatrons, because the extra micro and popcap are part of the goal to make getting and using them (over IS healing) a proper choice rather than a no-brainer.

To fix the slower CP gain in large games, why not have caches provide some CP?

I'd recommend 100 action points when built, and generating 20 per minute while it's alive. This is applied to the entire team.

(800 action points to a command point, I believe. With 4 caches, this would give .5CP right away, and 1CP every 10 minutes)

This would mean that Heavy tanks could be returned to 13CP (+T4), and they wouldn't be too late in team games. That's a much simpler solution than requiring all structures.

That's a much simpler solution than requiring all structures.

But what about full OKW teams? Should they lose an even match because they're several CPs behind because they can't build caches and can't call in heavy tanks or abilities while the Allies can? This is a core mechanic, and meddling with core mechanics is never simple. There are always consequences.

But what about full OKW teams?

I would argue that the non-doctrinal presence of the Tiger II makes CP gain a little less important for OKW in team games.

EDIT: it is also possible to give the CP gain to HQs, which would not affect OKW differently.

...

According to the great job made by Siphon X the difference in CP gain (1vs1 to 4vs4) is about 3 minutes. One can probably fix that with adjusting passive CP gain across modes with a minimum other impact.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/61229/resource-income-per-game-mode/page/1#post_id609470

The Forward Assembly was considered, but takes very long to build, isn't meant to be used as a base structure (it's in the name) and I don't think it should be encouraged to build a massive silly looking structure in the HQ sector (the Ostheer bunker at least kind of fits in).

The medic squad has been introduced to give the UKF an easier time healing up their support weapons and squads. However, we are well aware of the possible consequences for Infantry Sections if they'd no longer require the healing upgrade and we want to avoid this. The idea is that the medics should ultimately be finetuned to serve only as a "doable" addition to occasionally heal up a Sapper or team weapon squad, but shouldn't heal fast enough to completely replace the IS healing upgrade. This is why it's a medic squad in the first place rather than automatrons, because the extra micro and popcap are part of the goal to make getting and using them (over IS healing) a proper choice rather than a no-brainer.

Therefore i really think that good idea would be to make Infantry Section upgrades requiring weapon slot. It's should force player to either pick a 5 men 2xbren blob or a more supportive, and universal squad with higher sight, smoke or healing. I don't see any disadvantages here. What do you think?

#BuffOST

#BuffOST

keep ost as benchmark, nerf other factions instead...

keep ost as benchmark, nerf other factions instead...

Agreed, nerf UKF!

Therefore i really think that good idea would be to make Infantry Section upgrades requiring weapon slot. It's should force player to either pick a 5 men 2xbren blob or a more supportive, and universal squad with higher sight, smoke or healing. I don't see any disadvantages here. What do you think?

5 man sections with one bren often lose to 4 men grens with lmg of the same level and as sander now has clarified the medics ukf will get are the worst medic option in the game, you will probably want 2 sections with healing still at the very least. These medics are really bad to use , they move slowly , they are not very responsive and they also take 3 pop lol.

According to the great job made by Siphon X the difference in CP gain (1vs1 to 4vs4) is about 3 minutes. One can probably fix that with adjusting passive CP gain across modes with a minimum other impact.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/61229/resource-income-per-game-mode/page/1#post_id609470

I was using this graph as well! Very nice.
The "income multiplier per team size" variable doesn't work, but HQs could very easily be made to provide all other members of the team with action points.

45 per minute per teammate HQ would mean another CP every ~6 minutes in 4v4, and slower in smaller modes.

Agreed, nerf UKF!

Cant we just keep sections to the same level as they are in the live build and buff comets to Pershing levels and kinda gut hammer.
Imagine hard to get to but multiple Pershings. The brits will be ticking time bomb.

Cant we just keep sections to the same level as they are in the live build and buff comets to Pershing levels and kinda gut hammer.
Imagine hard to get to but multiple Pershings. The brits will be ticking time bomb.

I dont think "if they survive long enough, they win" is a good idea.

buff comets to Pershing levels

A non-doc pershing that you can get multiple of at the same time?

No thanks.

Feedback to brits:

1. Infantry Section
I feel like double both (target size and moving accuracy) maybe too much. Not early game when they have 4 men but later, at stage of 5 men - not to meansion when they will be equipt with 2x bren. I think we should let one of those buffs go OR make medic/pyro upgrade requiring 1 weapon slot. If not i fear we will see old Tommies blob back. Smoke idea is great. I would also look at the unit price. I think there is a bug there.
Is there anyway to buff them when they are 4 men and not when they are 5 men?

Making the pyro/medic take a weapon slot is an option.
Alternative is making the 5th upgrade optional per squad (for free, after the tech is unlocked) and making it require a weapon slot.

The problem with IS has always been the late end game scaling.

Therefore i really think that good idea would be to make Infantry Section upgrades requiring weapon slot. It's should force player to either pick a 5 men 2xbren blob or a more supportive, and universal squad with higher sight, smoke or healing. I don't see any disadvantages here. What do you think?

I think - for now - it's better to let Infantry Sections retain their excellent scaling because the UKF do not have stock elite infantry to take up the mantle late game. The moving accuracy buff will barely affect Bren armed Sections.

We don't want to slap on too many changes at once because we won't know where we'll end up. With bigger changes like these we'll usually first have to lay out the new framework in the main patch and hopefully get most of it right, and then afterwards make further adjustments where needed.

If the new changes prove to be a significant improvement for UKF, we can always look at toning down Infantry Section scaling later. I don't think it's a big enough problem to warrant immediate change.

Can't wait for the Falls faust removal, the pain is real.

keep ost as benchmark, nerf other factions instead...

PQ doesn't work for relic for over half a decade, let it go already.