fallschirmjager units are too broken imo

I pretty much exclusively play 2v2, so I can't speak to 1v1 balance. But I don't use falls when I play as OKW, and I rarely play against them when I am allies, and when I do, I don't think they are a problem.

That being said, there doesn't seem to be a convincing reason why falls should have a snare. If people are upset about it in different game modes or levels of play, why not just take the snare away? Replace it with a mine or dedicated AT path. What is the balance team's reason for a snare on falls? I am genuinely asking.

The only reason why this is true is because OKW Tiger >>> Falls every time.

The only reason why this is true is because OKW Tiger >>> Falls every time.

Exactly

Lutwafee Ground Forces isnt even that strong of a doctrine. Doesn't mean Falls shouldn't be changed

We can buff other aspects of the commander

Falls have snares because originally OKW was not meant to have non doctrinal snares.

With a reduced pool of commanders, you could either opt for PF or Falls as a solution.

Several years later and reworks in between, they went from "i'm spawning right in your face so i can kill your sniper" to this ambush kind of unit.

If they still have a snare is because it was hard how strong or weak a unit will be after a rework.

I have repeatedly said Fallschirmjaegers were reworked incorrectly and should have been a max-utility camo squad with 5 men, basic kars and 30 something reinforce cost.

They'd have an upgrade for either 2 FG-42 or maybe Assgren MP-40s, but their principal value would have been their grenades and the snare; sort of a more expensive 'mainline infantry' replacement without being overkill. Instead we get this 'fragile' 4-men elite squad with basically 2 BARs on spawn and the option for 2 more later on.

Result is very high DPS at every range and very low RA making infantry counters unreliable, and then a snare to make vehicle counters unreliable as well; bonkers unit design, not even counting the camo and ambush.

Falls having snares isn't a balance issue, but more of a design issue which is why its not that big of a deal so ofc certain ppl still bitch about it. but if its still an issue, just replace it with a unique kind of mine

Now, to get this out of the way, I'd sooner KEEP the snare and nerf them otherwise. I have always been alone on that boat but I'm going to proceed with this question anyways:

Why would removing their snare REQUIRE something else in exchange? They are OP because of a series of buffs. Why does creating a weakness (which they currently lack, thus making them OP) require some sort of counter buff? Is camo, first strike and good at all ranges not good enough? What if they also fucked shit up on the move? How about a bundled nade? How about poison smoke to negate CQB squads and allow them to recloak for that ambush bonus again? Why do they NEED something given back if something is removed to BALANCE them?

I would just revert their DPS changes and tie them behind late vet and keep their ambush bonus rework exactly where it is. They can earn being fuck everything everywhere at every range, but until then they need to be used as ambush troops. Keeps em unique (even though "use in a specific way and not just attack head on regardless of terrain" isn't really OKW's style it was always nice that falls were outside the norm.

The only reason why this is true is because OKW Tiger >>> Falls every time.

I'm not really sure about that tbh. It's more of a playstyle preference, I'd say.

Artillery Tiger wins you the game at the 20 minute mark but Cloaking Obers with Faust at 2 CP can win you the game much earlier.

Now, to get this out of the way, I'd sooner KEEP the snare and nerf them otherwise. I have always been alone on that boat but I'm going to proceed with this question anyways:

Why would removing their snare REQUIRE something else in exchange? They are OP because of a series of buffs. Why does creating a weakness (which they currently lack, thus making them OP) require some sort of counter buff? Is camo, first strike and good at all ranges not good enough? What if they also fucked shit up on the move? How about a bundled nade? How about poison smoke to negate CQB squads and allow them to recloak for that ambush bonus again? Why do they NEED something given back if something is removed to BALANCE them?

I would just revert their DPS changes and tie them behind late vet and keep their ambush bonus rework exactly where it is. They can earn being fuck everything everywhere at every range, but until then they need to be used as ambush troops. Keeps em unique (even though "use in a specific way and not just attack head on regardless of terrain" isn't really OKW's style it was always nice that falls were outside the norm.

r u serious man? they don't have a weakness? they are 4 man for gods sake, out of all elite squads they are one of the quickest to wipe. just because they have a snare, u guys make it out they can counter tanks lol. they still get wrecked by LV's, tanks and other elite squads too depending on the engagement

Now, to get this out of the way, I'd sooner KEEP the snare and nerf them otherwise. I have always been alone on that boat but I'm going to proceed with this question anyways:

Why would removing their snare REQUIRE something else in exchange? They are OP because of a series of buffs. Why does creating a weakness (which they currently lack, thus making them OP) require some sort of counter buff? Is camo, first strike and good at all ranges not good enough? What if they also fucked shit up on the move? How about a bundled nade? How about poison smoke to negate CQB squads and allow them to recloak for that ambush bonus again? Why do they NEED something given back if something is removed to BALANCE them?

I would just revert their DPS changes and tie them behind late vet and keep their ambush bonus rework exactly where it is. They can earn being fuck everything everywhere at every range, but until then they need to be used as ambush troops. Keeps em unique (even though "use in a specific way and not just attack head on regardless of terrain" isn't really OKW's style it was always nice that falls were outside the norm.

it's ok to create a weaknees with no counetr buff if the unit is OP , like the jackson, but falls are barley used as tournament and quick match

it's ok to create a weaknees with no counetr buff if the unit is OP , like the jackson, but falls are barley used as tournament and quick match

. Which might have something to do with the new commander with the much renowned tiger... Just because something isn't seeing much game time doesn't mean it's not OP. the DSHK was unchanged FOR YEARS and got heafy nerfs once the maxim was gutted with a triple nerf following a double nerf. An OP unit doesn't always draw more than a very rounded commander, which means a rounded commander is better design than one that is centered around a crutch.

. Which might have something to do with the new commander with the much renowned tiger... Just because something isn't seeing much game time doesn't mean it's not OP. the DSHK was unchanged FOR YEARS and got heafy nerfs once the maxim was gutted with a triple nerf following a double nerf. An OP unit doesn't always draw more than a very rounded commander, which means a rounded commander is better design than one that is centered around a crutch.

people picked falls doc, it did horrible in the tournament and I don't see it in quick match at least as Soviet , so can we have some replay or something ? Maybe some test ?

Based on this thread falls are op cause " I said so and my opinion >Ur opinion"

people picked falls doc, it did horrible in the tournament and I don't see it in quick match at least as Soviet , so can we have some replay or something ? Maybe some test ?

Based on this thread falls are op cause " I said so and my opinion >Ur opinion"

And again, a well rounded doc > an OP unit in a meh doc. To use the same example as before, how often did you see Soviet defensive tactics when the DSHK was a monster? Doesn't mean the unit wasn't incredibly strong, it mean that the power of the unit, despite its insane value, wasn't enough to overcome the draw of having 5 good things to draw someone to the commander.

Falls being op and the fall doctrine not being great are not mutually exclusive. I like falls as a unit (not their current over tuned version so much) but they are over powered. But that doesn't mean the commander is. If I can get penals with a snare and a their SVTs and a Tiger that can call in arty... Well yea... Imma do that cause it's much more rounded and takes away factional weaknesses.

it's ok to create a weaknees with no counetr buff if the unit is OP , like the jackson, but falls are barley used as tournament and quick match

Which is 100% cause heavy tanks are OP right now? An the commander doesn't really help you much against heavy tanks?

It has been said multiple times that we can nerf the unit while buffing the cmdr

people picked falls doc, it did horrible in the tournament and I don't see it in quick match at least as Soviet , so can we have some replay or something ? Maybe some test ?

Based on this thread falls are op cause " I said so and my opinion >Ur opinion"

How many times does it have to be explained that tournaments are non indicative of meta or unit balance?

As much as the game is balanced around high skill players, its not specifically balanced around all 10 of them tops.

How many times does it have to be explained that tournaments are non indicative of meta or unit balance?

As much as the game is balanced around high skill players, its not specifically balanced around all 10 of them tops.

ok but at least i have some thing to show for it, here we are literally talking on nothing, no replay not stats, nothing

u can't state something without proof and then when someone counter argue u with minimal BUT existing proof say "well ur sample size is too small etc", that's beyond hypocrisies and just being obtuse

Instead of a Faust why not give Falls an AT nade similar to PanzerFus?

ok but at least i have some thing to show for it, here we are literally talking on nothing, no replay not stats, nothing

Imo you didn't even respond to the two most valid points:

Falls have had a snare since long before volks did. Now that OKW has it on their mainlines, there is no reason for them to have it. What is your answer to this point? Elchino brought this up earlier in the thread

How you do answer that there's no other squad in the game that has camo, great dps, snares, and very powerful grenades? And at cp2 no less? That was lagos point which you also didn't respond to in this thread
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And again, the tourney is 1 game mode, with a few players, on only a few maps in that game mode. Not to mention heavy tanks are OP, so that was the overwhelming trend

We can buff the commander while nerfing the unit. Valiant assault just got neutered, I really think they should rework the ability further or just replace it altogether

Instead of a Faust why not give Falls an AT nade similar to PanzerFus?

Because its exactly the same thing?

Falls have had a snare since long before volks did. Now that OKW has it on their mainlines, there is no reason for them to have it. What is your answer to this point?

Absolutely 100% agree. This is also the reason why Guards' snare was removed.

Oh...wait.