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fallschirmjager units are too broken imo

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T.R. Stormjäger
22 Jan 2020, 16:36 PM
#61
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 16:33 PMKatitof

Elite, supporting AT squad is good at AT? PREPOSTROUS! CALL IMBALANE POLICE!


If you put double piats on mandos, they aren't exactly going to be AI unit anymore. They also aren't going to be a good AT unit either.


And they no longer are exceptional AI squad when they do.


Wow, almost as if I saw this pointless argument coming and addressed it at the edit on the post you quoted.

Edit: This is the last time I address it: Support Paratroopers, Commandos and Rangers have two routes: They can go anti infantry and dominate infantry with nothing they can do vs vehicles (well support paras have mines so not entirely the case) or focus on anti tank and wreck LVs alone or hunt mediums (or heavies if multiple 3ple zook rangers). Falls have 1 route, anti infantry. They are hard countered by vehicles and have a snare so that the T70/Stuart doesn’t drive up to range 1 and wreck them.

In Lago’s mind this means they’re all the same, falls counter light vehicles and have no weakness. This couldn’t be further from the truth and the result of poor micro apparently, or lack of minesweeper escort on his LVs, leading to getting snared by camouflaged Falls.
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SkysTheLimit
22 Jan 2020, 16:51 PM
#62
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 16:35 PMdistrofio

I get you, but maybe devs wanted specifically that LV dont bully falls. Maybe meds and AI tanks.


The devs wanted a lot of things that have been completely changed. They wanted OKW to have reduced income

"The devs wanted it" isn't a good reason for anything
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Lago
22 Jan 2020, 17:36 PM
#63
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 16:36 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Edit: This is the last time I address it: Support Paratroopers, Commandos and Rangers have two routes: They can go anti infantry and dominate infantry with nothing they can do vs vehicles (well support paras have mines so not entirely the case) or focus on anti tank and wreck LVs alone or hunt mediums (or heavies if multiple 3ple zook rangers). Falls have 1 route, anti infantry. They are hard countered by vehicles and have a snare so that the T70/Stuart doesn’t drive up to range 1 and wreck them.

In Lago’s mind this means they’re all the same, falls counter light vehicles and have no weakness. This couldn’t be further from the truth and the result of poor micro apparently, or lack of minesweeper escort on his LVs, leading to getting snared by camouflaged Falls.


Falls do have a hard counter: medium armour.

Giving a unit cloaking allows it to dictate the range it engages at, as it cannot be targeted while cloaked.
Giving a unit higher CQC combat performance than the best nondoctrinal option in the opposing army necessitates attacking it at long range or with vehicles.
Giving a unit a snare prevents light vehicles from closing within snare range.

Put the three together, and you create a unit that cannot be attacked from long range if it doesn't choose to be, and which beats or snares any nondoctrinal unit short of a medium tank that attacks it at short range.

These three abilities should not be combined on any unit.

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 16:27 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Support Paratroopers lay M6 mines. Haven’t seen you bitch about them. They can also pick up elite bazookas.

Same with Commandos, camouflage, demo, double PIATs.

Rangers can pick up triple elite bazookas.

And in doing so, they sacrifice their anti-infantry firepower, allowing them to be hard-countered by dedicated anti-infantry squads.


jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 16:35 PMdistrofio
I get you, but maybe devs wanted specifically that LV dont bully falls. Maybe meds and AI tanks


An infantry squad that can only be hard-countered by medium tanks is fine if it shares timing with medium tanks.

Falls arrive at CP2.
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T.R. Stormjäger
22 Jan 2020, 17:40 PM
#64
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:36 PMLago

Put the three together, and you create a unit that cannot be attacked from long range if it doesn't choose to be, and which beats or snares any nondoctrinal unit short of a medium tank that attacks it at short range.


Step 1: Keep a minesweeper in front of your LV to reveal any cloaked units
Step 2: Stop spamming the forums with the same point day after day after day after day when it’s been shot down time and time again.
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Lago
22 Jan 2020, 17:43 PM
#65
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:40 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Step 1: Keep a minesweeper in front of your LV to reveal any cloaked units
Step 2: Stop spamming the forums with the same point day after day after day after day when it’s been shot down time and time again.


You personally screaming at anyone who suggests changing Falls does not count as 'shot down'.

Replying to a post mentioning me directly in a thread talking about Fallschirmjager is hardly spamming.
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T.R. Stormjäger
22 Jan 2020, 17:46 PM
#66
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Running in cicles with Lago once again and his delusion of how unbelievable and amazing and insane Fallschirmjägers are.

Fml
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Stug life
22 Jan 2020, 17:47 PM
#67
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remove faust add something else, sprint in camo ?
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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Sander93
22 Jan 2020, 17:49 PM
#68
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:40 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Step 1: Keep a minesweeper in front of your LV to reveal any cloaked units


Minesweepers do not reveal cloaked units.
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Lago
22 Jan 2020, 17:50 PM
#69
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:46 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Running in cicles with Lago once again and his delusion of how unbelievable and amazing and insane Fallschirmjägers are.

Fml


You don't have to reply to every post I make with 'don't change mah fallz!!' as if the Balance Team makes decisions by choosing random posts and doing whatever they say.

If the Balance Team think Falls having snares is a good thing, then they won't change them.

There's literally nothing to be afraid of unless you secretly agree with me. :P

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:47 PMStug life
remove faust add something else, sprint in camo ?


pls no
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T.R. Stormjäger
22 Jan 2020, 17:51 PM
#70
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:49 PMSander93


Minesweepers do not reveal cloaked units.


Minesweepers reveal mines and can run into cloaked units to reveal them just like regular infantry can. It’s a strat one should always employ in 1v1s, keeping a minesweeper ahead of your LVs path.

That’s what I meant.
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Lago
22 Jan 2020, 17:52 PM
#71
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:51 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Minesweepers reveal mines and can run into cloaked units to reveal them just like regular infantry can. It’s a strat one should always emply in 1v1s, keeping a minesweeper ahead of your LVs path.

That’s what I meant.


That sounds like a great way to get rid of unwanted engineers.
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T.R. Stormjäger
22 Jan 2020, 17:53 PM
#72
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:52 PMLago


That sounds like a great way to get rid of unwanted engineers.


Well there’s your L2P issue lol, learn to use a sweeper with your LV and you won’t suffer from Falls anymore.
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blvckdream
22 Jan 2020, 17:55 PM
#73
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Fallschirmjäger should definitely lose their Faust. No elite AI infantry has a snare. That's the reason why Shocks, Rangers, Paratroopers, Obers, etc don't have them. Not sure why Falls are supposed to be the exception for no apparent reason.
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SkysTheLimit
22 Jan 2020, 17:57 PM
#74
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:46 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Running in cicles with Lago once again and his delusion of how unbelievable and amazing and insane Fallschirmjägers are.

Fml


Why do you keep acting like he's the only one who thinks this? Not that my opinion is worth anything special but I've been agreeing with him for some time and there's definitely a few others

Edit: Yup lol, the post right above this one too
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Lago
22 Jan 2020, 18:11 PM
#75
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:53 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Well there’s your L2P issue lol, learn to use a sweeper with your LV and you won’t suffer from Falls anymore.


facedesk

The way you counter a cloaking squad is by flushing it out with something that beats it.

Elite CQC cloaked squads like Commandos and Stormtroopers beat any infantry that approaches them with their First Strike bonus and their abilities. Therefore, you flush them out with vehicles.

Because Fallschirmjager have snares, you can't flush them out with light vehicles because that light vehicle will receive an Engine Damaged crit and be unable to escape a follow-up by a Puma or
Raketenwerfer.

You can't flush them out with infantry.
You can't flush them out with light vehicles.
You can't flush them out before medium armour without sustaining hefty losses.

That means you have to either answer them doctrinally (outgun them with Rangers or Shocks) or economically (take the hit and do better elsewhere).

Both are entirely counter to the design philosophy of the game, no?

Or should we distribute AT grenades to Shock Troops?
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T.R. Stormjäger
22 Jan 2020, 18:21 PM
#76
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 17:57 PMSkysTheLimit


Why do you keep acting like he's the only one who thinks this?


Because he’s the only one who doesn’t know how to keep infantry in front of his LV.
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SkysTheLimit
22 Jan 2020, 18:29 PM
#77
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 18:21 PMT.R. Stormjäger


Because he’s the only one who doesn’t know how to keep infantry in front of his LV.


Okay? That ignores most of his argument

You don't have to do that vs any ambush squads in the game besides falls. Why should they be different?

And don't say mines are a good reason to do it anyway. Sweepers can detect mines from much further away than they can detect stealth units so you dont need to keep your sweeper in front of your LV to do that
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Lago
22 Jan 2020, 18:30 PM
#78
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 18:21 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Because he’s the only one who doesn’t know how to keep infantry in front of his LV.


Again, you're missing the point.

The only reason you flush ambush squads out with LVs in the first place is they kill infantry that wander too close. If you could flush them out with infantry, you wouldn't need to flush them out with vehicles.
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eVolm0rtie
22 Jan 2020, 18:37 PM
#79
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I pretty much exclusively play 2v2, so I can't speak to 1v1 balance. But I don't use falls when I play as OKW, and I rarely play against them when I am allies, and when I do, I don't think they are a problem.

That being said, there doesn't seem to be a convincing reason why falls should have a snare. If people are upset about it in different game modes or levels of play, why not just take the snare away? Replace it with a mine or dedicated AT path. What is the balance team's reason for a snare on falls? I am genuinely asking.












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Lago
22 Jan 2020, 18:39 PM
#80
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 18:37 PMeVolm0rtie
What is the balance team's reason for a snare on falls? I am genuinely asking.


They've always had a snare. When they got overhauled into their current state, it wasn't removed.
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