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Tank balance overhaul

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elchino7
21 Jan 2020, 18:17 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2020, 17:22 PMKatitof


10 tries can give you whatever result you are looking for to "prove" your point, regardless how biased it is.

1000 or 10000 will give you accurate result according to balance.
Game is balanced with big data, not irrelevant handful of repeats.

Please don't talk about numbers if you don't understand how they work.

Alternatively, if you don't like that solution, SC2 multiplayer is free for terrans and there always is AoE2.


You can get RNGesus on AoE2 by multiple elements.

Map creation is really important.
Ranged units are not laser units, there's accuracy. Most noticeable with Trebuchets fights. Even more if you account for elevation.
There's also monk conversion.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Katitof
21 Jan 2020, 18:23 PM
#22
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2020, 18:17 PMelchino7


You can get RNGesus on AoE2 by multiple elements.

Map creation is really important.
Ranged units are not laser units, there's accuracy. Most noticeable with Trebuchets fights. Even more if you account for elevation.
There's also monk conversion.

SC2 it is then for him.
Or DoW3 if he likes relic.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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EtherealDragon
21 Jan 2020, 19:18 PM
#23
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Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

The "TD as random Crit generator" is kind of a nonstarter I think... years ago Crits were a lot more prevalent but Relic greatly scaled them back because a lot of players found them more frustrating than a cool feature where "every battle is different!". Even now I think most players would rather see RNG crits like Vehicle abandoned disappear completely over introducing more RNG
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distrofio
21 Jan 2020, 19:20 PM
#24
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Posts: 2358

I was against random crits too, i tried to portrait some crits to figure the idea out. But when implemented, there should be specific crits inflicted upon hits, as i said in the OP, targeted abilities that cause thread or main gun damage
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thedarkarmadillo
21 Jan 2020, 19:44 PM
#25
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Posts: 5279

I think a large problem with the old crit system was that it was perma crit which required a complete withdrawal to repair. It might be less extreme if they are temporary debuff instead of semi permanent critical. More along the lines of wounded crew than destroyed components
#stalinwept
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SkysTheLimit
21 Jan 2020, 21:49 PM
#26
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2020, 19:44 PMthedarkarmadillo
I think a large problem with the old crit system was that it was perma crit which required a complete withdrawal to repair. It might be less extreme if they are temporary debuff instead of semi permanent critical. More along the lines of wounded crew than destroyed components


Yeah I think the rare gun-loader injured crit is still in the game somewhere. Arty cover from tac support on brit causes that one iirc
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elchino7
21 Jan 2020, 23:10 PM
#27
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Stun criticals, main gun destroyed, engine damage/destroyed, thread destroyed are NONO.

Loader/Gunner/Driver injured, turret lock, T34 ram exhaust engine, maybe. Not for CoH2. An idea to have for CoH3.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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T.R. Stormjäger
22 Jan 2020, 00:02 AM
#28
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Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Criticals are not a good idea for coh2. Steel Division has timed criticals and has repairs via supply trucks, but it also has suppression for armour and lower kill rates from distance so it's not a good comparison.
Playercard of T.R. Stormjäger

1v1: Pstreak: - 1
1v1: 11streak: + 1
1v1: 14streak: - 2
1v1: Pstreak: - 7


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SkysTheLimit
22 Jan 2020, 03:11 AM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2020, 23:10 PMelchino7
Stun criticals, main gun destroyed, engine damage/destroyed, thread destroyed are NONO.

Loader/Gunner/Driver injured, turret lock, T34 ram exhaust engine, maybe. Not for CoH2. An idea to have for CoH3.


A lot of these are already in game though? Or are you saying not to add new sources of them?

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C3 TOOTH
22 Jan 2020, 04:06 AM
#30
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 176

I can say instead of the tank dies at 0hp.
Make the tank gets engine critical when at 0hp. Only dead when below 0hp.

Example
Halftrack 320hp
. Get 2 AT shot, 0h -> engine damage. 3rd AT shot will kill it (Halftrack will able to retreat if luckly)
. Get 1 AT shot and a snare -> 40hp left, 2nd AT shot will instantly kill it without engine damage.

Snare no more cause engine damage, this mechanic is stupid for me.



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elchino7
22 Jan 2020, 10:01 AM
#31
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 03:11 AMSkysTheLimit


A lot of these are already in game though? Or are you saying not to add new sources of them?



I briefly skimmed through what it was written in the first post.
I'm basically saying that for TDs, soft criticals and ones which are not permanent till repairs are fine.

I'm also implying that this will never see the light on CoH2 and is just a consideration to have for the future at most.

PD: all what i mentioned is already in the game in some sort of form or was removed from it.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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T.R. Stormjäger
22 Jan 2020, 10:33 AM
#32
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Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Maybe reduce accuracy on all vehicles to make it less automatic?
Playercard of T.R. Stormjäger

1v1: Pstreak: - 1
1v1: 11streak: + 1
1v1: 14streak: - 2
1v1: Pstreak: - 7


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Lago
22 Jan 2020, 10:41 AM
#33
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

There are a lot of interesting things you can do with tank balance, but they're the demense of mods now.

With every patch being maybe the last, don't expect anything radical and risky from official updates.
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Katitof
22 Jan 2020, 11:33 AM
#34
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 10:33 AMT.R. Stormjäger
Maybe reduce accuracy on all vehicles to make it less automatic?

Outside of everything missing more, leading to more frustrating encounters, what would that achieve?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Musti
22 Jan 2020, 14:17 PM
#35
avatar of Musti

Posts: 203

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 11:33 AMKatitof

Outside of everything missing more, leading to more frustrating encounters, what would that achieve?

CoH2:XCOM edition?
You can't spell "Power Creep" without REEEEE.
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SkysTheLimit
22 Jan 2020, 17:39 PM
#36
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Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 14:17 PMMusti

CoH2:XCOM edition?


At least then it would tell me exactly what my chances to hit are lol
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SkysTheLimit
22 Jan 2020, 18:35 PM
#37
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 10:01 AMelchino7


PD: all what i mentioned is already in the game in some sort of form or was removed from it.


Yeah I meant still in the game, my bad

Don't think I've ever seen driver injured though

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elchino7
22 Jan 2020, 19:50 PM
#38
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 18:35 PMSkysTheLimit


Yeah I meant still in the game, my bad

Don't think I've ever seen driver injured though



Originally, Stuka AT strafe used to do lots of different crits.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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SkysTheLimit
22 Jan 2020, 19:52 PM
#39
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2020, 19:50 PMelchino7


Originally, Stuka AT strafe used to do lots of different crits.


Yes, I forgot about that dreadful time
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thedarkarmadillo
22 Jan 2020, 22:00 PM
#40
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Posts: 5279

Everything used to do shit tones of crits iirc. Like every shot had a chance (and the stuka had lots of shots) which is obviously extreme. But I think controlled reintroduction could be alright as an alternative to balancing certain problematic units.
#stalinwept
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