The Great OKW commander balancing

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 12:30 PMT.R. Stormjäger

That’s not my point. The problem is the economy is too good, so while you’re fighting a 4 cons, 1 guard army, your opponent goes 7 man cons on all 4 squads and soon within 5-10 mins has enough savings in mp to roll out a zis, a maxim, a mortar and tanks. If you don’t believe me check the last replay I uploaded. Your opponent floats plenty of mp while you’re stuck with barely enough mp to get tanks out,

Hence why I proposed removing the xp gain and lower reinforcement cost of 7 man cons, to make late game trading more even.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 20:22 PMthedarkarmadillo

Hes saving enough from the 3mp per model with the 7 man upgrade so if he's taking enough casualties to have saved enough for a zis (320) a maxim (280) a mortar (240) and tanks (depends on the tank of course but there IS an "s" so it's plural) means they lost 280 models in 5-10 minutes to have the 840mp worth of savings, then another like 90 for a T70. That sure is a lot of casualties in 5-10 minutes. How did you fare in the combat that they took a games worth of casualties in 5-10 minutes and came out on top?

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 19:15 PMLago

If the answer is HEAT then Pumas aren't a counter. Not unless something crazy like HEAT becoming nondoctrinal happens.

EDIT: So I went and tested it out and... wow.

Not gonna lie, I was not expecting two bog standard Vet 0 Pumas to take out a Pershing from the front.

The IS-2's a different story, but it's getting its armour cut.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 10:05 AMVipper

You are confusing the "heavy stalling" with "heavy meta", the dominant tactic before and after the patch.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 21:05 PMT.R. Stormjäger

Dude Elite Armoured is insane. If they didn’t kill the Sturmtiger a few patches ago it would be better than GO.

If the put in the 222 and fix the ST like I suggested, this becomes the best okw doctrine.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 18:11 PMJae For Jett

Again, countering heavies is not the command panthers role or what it excels at. Its aggressively hunting and killing mediums. If mediums were more favored, the medium hunter (the panther) would also be more favored. Also, the command panther has been retuned (cost decrease) to be more of a command alternative to the panther. Even if the c panther absolutely annihilatd heavies, spec ops still wouldnt be any more preferable because the panther would do the job just as well without requiring a doctrine. Like you said, you dont have a lot of vehicles to benefit from the aura in 1v1s, so why choose the command panther over the regular panther?

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 22:42 PMVipper

One can do that with cheaper JP.

Panther is there to counter super heavies. C. Panther is simply way too expensive since it cost around the same as Command Tiger comes at similar CP and bring allot less to the table.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 22:42 PMVipper

One can do that with cheaper JP.

Panther is there to counter super heavies. C. Panther is simply way too expensive since it cost around the same as Command Tiger comes at similar CP and bring allot less to the table.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 21:20 PMSkysTheLimit

Yeah Lago calling that semantics is not "being toxic." It's being accurate

Waiting for a heavy is more viable than it was before, you can call it whatever you want

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 23:10 PMLago

Except the Panther doesn't counter super heavies. It's less effective than StuGs (and apparently Pumas) against >300 armour vehicles.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 22:48 PMT.R. Stormjäger

Jett is right, Cmd Panther exceled at dropping a mark target on an enemy medium and then diving it to quickly get the kill. Heavies have enough xp to escape to enemy AT/infantry and prevent such a dive.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 23:29 PMVipper

OKW do not have Stugs.

If the C.Panther/Panther do not counter Super heavies than it simply badly designed and have the wrong cost.

Finally mark target is not that great vs mediums it offer 15% better accuracy since the number of shot remain the same.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 23:31 PMLago

OKW does have Pumas though.

As for the effectiveness of the Panther and Command Panther against today's heavies, I wasn't aware their being not great at it was controversial.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 21:04 PMT.R. Stormjäger

It’s not just the 3mp per model, it’s also the 20% xp gain since he rebuilt 2 con that limits bleeding and improves field presence. Without those two over about 30-35 kills in the midgame I think he at least would have had to skip the mortar, which in another game would have been a maxim.

Seems like a fair nerf to me.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2019, 00:04 AMthedarkarmadillo

The 20% vet gain is working as intended. When you lose a gren and buy an lmg for the replacement they deal a lot more damage and thus gain a lot more vet than they would without but you also have the added bonus of it hitting the field before your tanks. You are complaining about the exact purpose of the upgrade....

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2019, 00:04 AMthedarkarmadillo

The 20% vet gain is working as intended. When you lose a gren and buy an lmg for the replacement they deal a lot more damage and thus gain a lot more vet than they would without but you also have the added bonus of it hitting the field before your tanks. You are complaining about the exact purpose of the upgrade....

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 23:35 PMVipper

It pretty simply C.Panther is overpriced compared to Command Tiger. An AT units should perform better than all-round unit vs vehicles if their prices is so close.

I would so far as to say that Croc is also overpriced since with new AOE profiles Tiger/IS-2/Persing have way better AT and not that much less AI.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2019, 01:00 AMLago

I'm not talking about shoulds. I'm talking about does.

The current Panther butchers every unsupported vehicle up to its price point but fares no better than a StuG pair (and apparently Pumas) against heavy armour.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 23:24 PMVipper

It seem that now it is your are being toxic. I did not come up with term "heavy stalling" its in the freaking patch notes.

Jump back to quoted post23 Dec 2019, 23:24 PMVipper

Before the patch it stalling for Super no tech heavies, not there is not stalling one simply goes for Super heavies hence "Super heavy meta"

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2019, 01:02 AMT.R. Stormjäger

How does Panther do against:

T34/85 with mark target

Jackson on the move

Firefly with tulips

Edit: Also Easy 8 on the move