https://www.coh2.org/news/102660/world-championship-match-stats
While we have another thread, i think this kind of new information and analysis deserves it's own thread.
IB4 States of USF
Stats from the WCS 2019 2.0 - Siphon X version
19 Dec 2019, 16:50 PM
#1
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
In case you don't visit the News section:
https://www.coh2.org/news/102660/world-championship-match-stats
While we have another thread, i think this kind of new information and analysis deserves it's own thread.
IB4 States of USF
https://www.coh2.org/news/102660/world-championship-match-stats
While we have another thread, i think this kind of new information and analysis deserves it's own thread.
IB4 States of USF
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
19 Dec 2019, 17:02 PM
#2
Posts: 379 | Subs: 1
Pretty much confirms what people have been saying about Soviets. Bit more surprised at the high WR of USF, didn't think they'd be ranked that high.
Wehrmacht on life support once more.
Wehrmacht on life support once more.
19 Dec 2019, 17:10 PM
#3
Posts: 1563
Pretty much confirms what people have been saying about Soviets. Bit more surprised at the high WR of USF, didn't think they'd be ranked that high.
Wehrmacht on life support once more.
Nah ost is fine it's just that the pro's are getting Lazy.
19 Dec 2019, 17:30 PM
#4
Posts: 4474
great excuse
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
19 Dec 2019, 17:32 PM
#5
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Ostheer will continue to suffer until they get a mobile AT platform in the early game. They had that in GSC2 (Puma) and now they don’t.
Personally I’d love to see either Pioneers getting a Panzershrek (able to purchase alongside sweeper but not flamer) or a 90fuel Panzer IV F1 from T2.
Personally I’d love to see either Pioneers getting a Panzershrek (able to purchase alongside sweeper but not flamer) or a 90fuel Panzer IV F1 from T2.
19 Dec 2019, 17:36 PM
#6
Posts: 1563
wish they would just give mech pg squads with shrecks. them coming doctrinally is pointless now since you can't actually skip em anymore.
19 Dec 2019, 17:37 PM
#7
Posts: 556
Great work as always by SiphonX.
I think stats confirm those :
> USF and SOV overtuned
> OKW is now the new milestone of balance
> OST is a little underperforming (due to LV phase + late game infantry)
> UKF on life support
I think stats confirm those :
> USF and SOV overtuned
> OKW is now the new milestone of balance
> OST is a little underperforming (due to LV phase + late game infantry)
> UKF on life support
Grens are finally good.
19 Dec 2019, 17:39 PM
#8
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Great work as always by SiphonX.
I think stats confirm those :
> USF is fine
> Soviets need heavy tank nerfs
> OKW is a dead faction once heavy tanks are nerfed
> OST is a little underperforming (due to LV phase + bad T4)
> UKF on life support
Fixed
19 Dec 2019, 17:43 PM
#9
Posts: 4474
Great work as always by SiphonX.is this real life ? how the fuck did okw become the pinacle of balance now
I think stats confirm those :
> USF and SOV overtuned
> OKW is now the new milestone of balance
> OST is a little underperforming (due to LV phase + late game infantry)
> UKF on life support
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
19 Dec 2019, 17:44 PM
#10
Posts: 1563
I think they should just ditch the UKF beeing uber defensive thing. In coh1 at least PE was more aggressive than US and being that defensive made sense. Neither OKW or OST are nearly as aggressive so what exactly are they countering.
19 Dec 2019, 17:46 PM
#11
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
is this real life ? how the fuck did okw become the pinacle of balance now
Well Vipper wants everything nerfed, so when the heavy tank nerfs arrive soon and OKW is officially dead, it’ll be the pinnacle of balance.
19 Dec 2019, 18:10 PM
#12
Posts: 556
Fixed
Actually no.
FOR SOV : What makes SOV oppressive is you can't trade with them. Yes they bleed MP out of their ass in early game but in late game there is no contest. But yes IS-2 is too good.
For USF : Rifleman are just raping everyone on their path + Jackson.
For OST : Agreed on T4 but also MGs don't scale that well into late game
For OKW : They are fine as they are. Maybe KT can see some love.
For UKF : Real dead faction
Grens are finally good.
19 Dec 2019, 18:11 PM
#13
Posts: 556
is this real life ? how the fuck did okw become the pinacle of balance now
Well their win rate and build flexibility shows just that. Other than volks having a lavanade what is wrong with that faction ? They got everything in their stock roster.
Grens are finally good.
19 Dec 2019, 18:19 PM
#14
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
What I personally find interesting it is the following:
Grand Offensive Doctrine
Breakthrough Doctrine
total 37 time.
Panzerfüsiliers used in 18 total games total number produced 36.
In other words they where produced in less than half of the game and about 2 in average.
Imo that is a strong indication that :
Panzerfusilliers "alternative mainline" "slightly weaker" "increased power in the late game" design does not work.
Imo the unit should be redesigned either with higher power level early and lower late or to be cheaper and more cost efficient especially in the early game.
3 Elite Armored Doctrine
221 produce 0
ST produced 0
Again the fact that no 221 was produced indicates how weak and cost ineffective this unis is.
Imo it should become separated vehicle from 223 and designed balanced separately.
(edited with the correct stats thanks sanders93/syphonx)
Grand Offensive Doctrine
Breakthrough Doctrine
total 37 time.
Panzerfüsiliers used in 18 total games total number produced 36.
In other words they where produced in less than half of the game and about 2 in average.
Imo that is a strong indication that :
Panzerfusilliers "alternative mainline" "slightly weaker" "increased power in the late game" design does not work.
Imo the unit should be redesigned either with higher power level early and lower late or to be cheaper and more cost efficient especially in the early game.
3 Elite Armored Doctrine
221 produce 0
ST produced 0
Again the fact that no 221 was produced indicates how weak and cost ineffective this unis is.
Imo it should become separated vehicle from 223 and designed balanced separately.
(edited with the correct stats thanks sanders93/syphonx)
19 Dec 2019, 18:20 PM
#15
Posts: 359
SU overtuned
USF and OKW looks to have a somewhat balanced matchup with each other. Even seeing some winning games for both factions without a commander pick.
OST and UKF are in the dumpster.
USF and OKW looks to have a somewhat balanced matchup with each other. Even seeing some winning games for both factions without a commander pick.
OST and UKF are in the dumpster.
Panzer tactician is no different than a skill shot. Hardly a "Free" get out of jail card.
19 Dec 2019, 18:33 PM
#16
Posts: 379 | Subs: 1
is this real life ? how the fuck did okw become the pinacle of balance now
Makes total sense, given that all Allied factions were buffed to OKW level without considering what it does to the matchup against Wehrmacht.
19 Dec 2019, 19:01 PM
#17
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Elite Armoured for OKW needs to finally be fixed
222 Scout Car: 200mp/30fuel once a truck is set up
Elite Vehicle Crew repairs
HEAT rounds
Panzer commander
Sturmtiger (Shell needs to deal more damage to vehicles, slightly increase damage to infantry)
222 Scout Car: 200mp/30fuel once a truck is set up
Elite Vehicle Crew repairs
HEAT rounds
Panzer commander
Sturmtiger (Shell needs to deal more damage to vehicles, slightly increase damage to infantry)
19 Dec 2019, 19:07 PM
#18
Posts: 379 | Subs: 1
Elite Armoured for OKW needs to finally be fixed
222 Scout Car: 200mp/30fuel once a truck is set up
Elite Vehicle Crew repairs
HEAT rounds
Panzer commander
Sturmtiger (Shell needs to deal more damage to vehicles, slightly increase damage to infantry)
Elite armor is fine, except for the fact the Sturmtiger is useless. The 221 is really useful, whereas the 222 wouldn't do anything for a faction that has the Luchs.
19 Dec 2019, 19:12 PM
#19
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I think stats confirm those
Can we please all realise that these stats do not confirm anything. The sample size is way too low, and because of that there are numerous factors that make these statistics unreliable. As Siphon specifically notes in his observations:
While these stats might give us an idea about the general state of balance in 1v1 to some extend, it should be noted that any the numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, for various reasons:
- Most games are decided by the skill gap between opponents (see below).
- We look at a small number of matches.
- The games are played on a subset of maps only. Performance on other maps might be very different. Also, starting positions were fixed, so wins or losses might be related to that, despite the valiant efforts to improve the maps prior to the tournament.
- Previous tournaments showed that each individual player has certain strengths and weaknesses when it comes to handling different factions.
- [Because of the best of five format, 3:0 wins translate into an artificial 67% win rate for whatever side was played first and third, while the real win ratio would be 50%]
These statistics are very globally indicative of trends at best, and not even remotely close to anything definitive.
13 Elite Armored Doctrine
221 produce 0
ST produced 0
Again the fact that no 221 was produced indicates how weak and cost ineffective this unis is.
Imo it should become separated vehicle from 223 and designed balanced separately.
Elite Armor was in loadouts 13 times. It was actually picked only 3 times, by only two players if I'm reading these stats correctly, so this does not really indicate anything. Other than that these two players happened to not build the unit for whatever unknown reason.
19 Dec 2019, 19:15 PM
#20
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Elite armor is fine, except for the fact the Sturmtiger is useless. The 221 is really useful, whereas the 222 wouldn't do anything for a faction that has the Luchs.
You could crutch on it to go Med HQ and straight to Schwerer.
The 222 could be very useful for OKW, especially since they suffer to support weapons spam early.
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