P grens need durability buff

Sniper is no included as its a no brainer and its designed to kill infantry so when it kills pgren its nothing out of the ordinary, is2 and isu152 are on there cos they tend to 1 shot the squad making its die outright.

Zis is on there as a at gun is not meant to kill any infantry unit and I see p grens lose guys when they assault these things its pathetic. Su 85 for its price and role should not even be able to get a single infantry kill as it is absolutely OP for tank kills already, and it does often snipe p grens and therefore is mentioned.

Mines cost 30 muni and kill 3 pgrens on the regular, even wiping whole squads.

Did I say zis or su85 they were counters? Nope. I said that they kill infantry ( which is meant to be the best in the game judging by the recrew cost) and they arent meant to, which is a joke.

Wren fucking panthers start wiping out shock squads, or a p4 being able to wipe guards in a shot or 2 let me know, until then units from the list should not be able to wipe a pgren with more ease then it is for it to do the same to a pio squad.

If that is not going to be changed then simply reduce the recrew cost to make them make sense - 30 mp is completely fair.

LOL, every single soviet thing is OP, go play the OP faction then

Boom - just schooled the whole forum. I have played vcoh since the day it has come out, watched every single shoutcast from ATR, dane, frontline network, and RNP. Basically have hundreds of hours clocked on both games, so I notice these things.

You can think im some sort of noob but the truth is I probably have more man hours invested in the games and see a lot of this stuff. Its all well and good to be dismissive of my points but weather you like it or not I'm right even if you dont want to admit it.

On the contrary, I'm increasingly convinced you don't know a damn about the game and try to get your faction buffed by making ridiculous claims. You remind me of some people on the offical forums.

If the 2nd most durable infantry in the game (bar a doctrinal, ultra-specialized, 440 mp one) is not durable enough for you, well sorry I don't know what to say. These ubersoldat walk over anything that's not shock troop and maybe flame penals. Conscripts melt when they merely hear their name. If you flank them as you should, weapons teams die in seconds. With shrecks, they pose a threat to most vehicles bar end-game superheavies, and the damn things can even gib infantry semi-reliably, and form the best AT infantry in the game. All that, non-doctrinally, available in tier 2. It seems the complaint in this thread is that PGrens can't solo everything the Soviets have. Well, sorry then?

Only reason we don't see more PGrens is that standard grenadiers are so powerful there's rarely a real impetus to build them. I see absolutely no reason to make their reinforce cost as cheap as grenadier's because some people are not good at the game or want a superunit.

@ OP, here's a suggestion, why not play against PGs for a bit? I look forward to the results when you leave a ZiS-3 to take on PGs.

Rofl, this thread! If this isn't trolling, then it's a pretty flagrant example of how hyperbole in balance threads can make someone look like a jackass. ZiS guns dude... Really? You should have just said "I want nothing to stop my mans from going this way, that way, or anyway they choose!"

Let's get this straight here. Infantry are supposed to die from cannons shooting at them. Not in droves, but infantry are still supposed be affected by them.

If you blob up your PGrens into that rolling meat grinder of infantry death, and I counter you with mines, barrages, and more, your PGs should die in scores for your lack of micro.

I agree with Nullist. Also I'm pretty sure for the counters with the At Gun, he meant the 60 munitions barrrage. But the SU-85 made me laugh.

everything i had to say has been said but they don't need a buff, those mother fuckers are god. sounds to me people aren't using them very well i love them.

there strength is in there DPS not there armor though its pretty darn good as well. (nullist already said that though.)

I think the issue you might be facing is improper use of PGrens they should be your flanking unit whether against tanks or support weapon teams depending on the upgrade status.

I do think that they should be hard coded to stay a little bit farther apart from each other.

But, a lot of units could use that across the board, but for Germans especially so. However, not too much since explosives are supposed to be effective against them, otherwise they'd need to buff other things against them.

Did Relic ever implement that feature where as infantry units vet up, they naturally start spreading out more?

what ?? buff the pgrens ??

Hell no !!! They might be the best overall infantry unit in the game . They can kill most units head on , they can mow down units on retreat , they can flank like crazy and they can kill tanks too and if you activate the tactical movement then god help your opponent .

The only thing that i could agree to is to give them reinforcement cost/ model equal to schocktroops

HS, dear OP, two things.

Most importantly of all, you need to learn to edit posts. You double-post again and again. If you want to reply to two different statements at the same time, just use your middle mouse button (le wheel) when you click one of the "reply" buttons, and then copy/paste from one tab to the other.

Next, when Nullist disagrees with you saying that a German unit is weak, you are per definition wrong.

This suggestion is just absurd. Does OP actually play the game?

Thanks for the replys guys I appreciate your feedback. All i know is when you have a 4 man squad and they start being killed regularly by zis or su85 shots and thwy cost 45 mp something needs to be done. Even 1 death is a big deal and zis and su85 regularly snipes p grens. My point stands either buff their durability, nerf su 85 and zis aginst inf ( not the barrage ability) or decrease the mp reinforce to 30. At 45 you expect thwm to do something good and here they are being sniped by at guns ot at vehicles.

On the contrary,I'm increasingly convinced you don't know a damn about the game and try to get your faction buffed by making ridiculous claims. You remind me of some people on the offical forums.

If the 2nd most durable infantry in the game (bar a doctrinal, ultra-specialized, 440 mp one) is not durable enough for you, well sorry I don't know what to say.

No, Guard are the second most durable unit, after Shocks.

@OP: As Trademrk points out, they really shine at clearing Support weapons. Grens will force a reposition but PGrens will flat out force a retreat as well as Nading. Also good in a defensive posture to cover your own Support weapons from infantry flanks.

Be very careful with them around T70s and T34s. These units have much better AI than one might think, and bleed PGrens hard, as well as T34 crush. The Su85 comment is just wrong. SU85s may get an occassional luckynsnipe, but its rare, and PGren Shreks are remarkabky effective vs SU85s (though not so much vs T70s/T34s which have the maneuverability to deny the Shreks relativeky long fire time).

I think for the kind of use you are trying to ge out of PGrens, I recommend trying some G43 Grens instead.
Good for advancing frontally by moving from cover to cover and keeping a good DPS rate up, but you dont suffer as hard MP losses and dont need to get quite as close to be effective.

Ontopic, Id like somekind of Sprint on PGrens. Perhaps when/if Vet abilities get more optimised? It is possible through Tactical Assault ability Commanders for quite cheap, which I think is underplayed for how cheap and good it is with heavy infantry play. One of the possible leeked Commanders also features a Low CP Sprint.

PGs are one of the few perfectly balanced units in CoH2 imo

This whole thread is....
ahahahahahaha,I can't believe my eyes,LoL )))
This is better than the Maxim OP MG42 UP troll thread

How about you claim they need a nerf, to make it extra funny.
I know you want to and think that.

As per the title - they need to be as survivable at least as the guards infantry or their recrew needs to go down to 30 per man. Currently they die as fast as engineers, its absolute bullshit to have a squad that expensive be the weakest infantry in game. The near unkillable shock troops re crew is no where near the 45 mp asking price.

get good please

How about you claim they need a nerf, to make it extra funny.
I know you want to and think that.

Three thoughts exactly:
1.Wasn't thinking that they need a nerf,I don't know what gave you that idea
2.Was I adressing you somehow?
3.It's just funny,it's like saying Shock Troops need more armor,anti-infantry buff and price reduction because they are oneshoted by Paks,Stugs and Panthers )

nah, pg's are pretty perfect how they are

i like to think all infantry balance is based around them