P grens need durability buff

As per the title - they need to be as survivable at least as the guards infantry or their recrew needs to go down to 30 per man. Currently they die as fast as engineers, its absolute bullshit to have a squad that expensive be the weakest infantry in game. The near unkillable shock troops re crew is no where near the 45 mp asking price.

As per the title - they need to be as survivable at least as the guards infantry or their recrew needs to go down to 30 per man. Currently they die as fast as engineers, its absolute bullshit to have a squad that expensive be the weakest infantry in game. The near unkillable shock troops re crew is no where near the 45 mp asking price.

It's not like they have armor or mow down anything short of shock troopers while advancing, or anything. They'll only go down like engineers if you throw them against a KV-8 or something that would naturally hard counter infantry anyways. Weakest infantry in the game? Right....

It's not like they have armor or mow down anything short of shock troopers while advancing, or anything. They'll only go down like engineers if you throw them against a KV-8 or something that would naturally hard counter infantry anyways. Weakest infantry in the game? Right....

They go down easily to mines, su76, m3, shocks, guards, suu85, zis gun, t34, t70, maxim, mortar fire, combat engines with flamer isu 152, is2.. they also happen to cost 45 per man and if they only unit they can reliably take on with minimal casualties ( I said minimal not 0 casualties) is cons then yes they need a durability buff as every other soviet infantry or even grens can take more damage and stay in field longer and cost considerably less to reinforce.

In any engagement they will lose 2-3 men which is 90 to 135 mp to reinforce each time.

Shock troops cost 40 mp per man and are 6 man squads so if you go down to one man you have a 200 mp cost compared to 135 for pgrens. So yes shocks do have a much higher mp reinforcement cost.

Ha Ha, ha ha, ....

lol, no

"They go down easly to Zis gun" had me in tears

"They go down easly to Zis gun" had me in tears

Well the thing is they should not take a single casulty to a zis gun but they usually do. If this by price is meant to be the games premier infantry then they should be able to shred any infatry based unit in the game that isnt a shock troop or mg.

Shock troops cost 40 mp per man and are 6 man squads so if you go down to one man you have a 200 mp cost compared to 135 for pgrens. So yes shocks do have a much higher mp reinforcement cost.

IF they go down to 1 man... When does that happen exactly? Shocks should be 50 mp to reinforce as nothing can kill them that isnt an ostwind or vet 2 FHT. And those 2 units tend to vanish from the map in mid game leaving an unkillable squad that can kill any infantry.

P grens tend to go down to 1 man from one single shot from t34... so no p grens are more expensive and have less field presence. If you can show me replays where they stay on the field for longer than 30 seconds in any sort of multi unit engagement ill be a happy man.

The other thing is these are meant to double as anti tank inf which is the biggest joke as it 120 muni for at weapons, and they have the durability of a pio squad, bleeding resources like crazy. They stay on field for like 10 seocnds before they need to retreat due to massive casualties and dont even get a chance to take on a single tank its pathetic. The guards are hands down better in this role as even with the low damage to vehicles, they live lone enough to do something and are a huge nuisance to any tank or vehicle on the field.

They go down easily to mines, su76, m3, shocks, guards, suu85, zis gun, t34, t70, maxim, mortar fire, combat engines with flamer isu 152, is2..

This list is just brilliant Next time you see pgrens kids, get ZiS-3 and SU-85, that will show them. Also I love the inclusion of ISU-152 and IS-2, judging durability of infantry based on the fact that they can`t withstand fire from these is just genius.

Ironically enough, the biggest problem when going pgrens are double snipers and they are missing from the list entirely which I think is inexcusable considering even mines are in there!

This list is just brilliant Next time you see pgrens kids, get ZiS-3 and SU-85, that will show them. Also I love the inclusion of ISU-152 and IS-2, judging durability of infantry based on the fact that they can`t withstand fire from these is just genius.

Ironically enough, the biggest problem when going pgrens are double snipers and they are missing from the list entirely which I think is inexcusable considering even mines are in there!

Sniper is no included as its a no brainer and its designed to kill infantry so when it kills pgren its nothing out of the ordinary, is2 and isu152 are on there cos they tend to 1 shot the squad making its die outright.

Zis is on there as a at gun is not meant to kill any infantry unit and I see p grens lose guys when they assault these things its pathetic. Su 85 for its price and role should not even be able to get a single infantry kill as it is absolutely OP for tank kills already, and it does often snipe p grens and therefore is mentioned.

Mines cost 30 muni and kill 3 pgrens on the regular, even wiping whole squads.

Did I say zis or su85 they were counters? Nope. I said that they kill infantry ( which is meant to be the best in the game judging by the recrew cost) and they arent meant to, which is a joke.

Wren fucking panthers start wiping out shock squads, or a p4 being able to wipe guards in a shot or 2 let me know, until then units from the list should not be able to wipe a pgren with more ease then it is for it to do the same to a pio squad.

If that is not going to be changed then simply reduce the recrew cost to make them make sense - 30 mp is completely fair.

Boom - just schooled the whole forum. I have played vcoh since the day it has come out, watched every single shoutcast from ATR, dane, frontline network, and RNP. Basically have hundreds of hours clocked on both games, so I notice these things.

You can think im some sort of noob but the truth is I probably have more man hours invested in the games and see a lot of this stuff. Its all well and good to be dismissive of my points but weather you like it or not I'm right even if you dont want to admit it.

If this by price is meant to be the games premier infantry then they should be able to shred any infatry based unit in the game that isnt a shock troop or mg.

I agree, they should!!

I agree, they should!!

Word

I agree, they should!!

And they do!
I have never seen a guard squad beat a pgren, atleast not at close range.

PGrens value is invested largely in their lack of accuracy penalty when moving (and situational Nading).
That is the strength you need to play them to.
Keep that in mind and Im sure your Pgren results will improve.

PGrens value is invested largely in their lack of accuracy penalty when moving (and situational Nading).
That is the strength you need to play them to.
Keep that in mind and Im sure your Pgren results will improve.

Im not saying they are weak, im saying they are not durable to a extent where they need a durability buff or a reinforce price reduction

Im not saying they are weak, im saying they are not durable to a extent where they need a durability buff or a reinforce price reduction

I understand that you are saying that.

I'm saying the extra cost is invested in lack of moving accuracy penalty, nades, their near DPS of over 44 (which nothing else comes even close to) and at 1.5 armor, that is better than most Sov infantry. They struggle a little vs Shocks, but those engagements usually are decided by who Nades better and reciprocated to PGrens by the lack of moving accuracy penalty.

I can't help but think your position is a result of expecting PGrens to do things they really aren't built for. Thats why I encouraged you bear in mind the strengths the unit has, as opposed to others, as a guideline for how best to utilise them.

And they do!

that was my point

The only units with better armor than PGs are Shocks, and those cost 440 MP and have no AT capability. If you increase the durability of the PGs even more, then they should cost more in the 440 MP range.

IMO the only unit that's better bang for the buck than PGs are Grens. Soviets would kill for a cheaper version of Shocks that can also be the best AT infantry in the game.