State of the Soviets

Can we also talk about the allied quad? Insta kills planes so you can't possibly counter artillery anymore since you can't get vision. Try to play against that when they have the B4 or smth.

Can we also talk about the allied quad? Insta kills planes so you can't possibly counter artillery anymore since you can't get vision. Try to play against that when they have the B4 or smth.

We should also talk about ost smoke drop planes. It gives vison/recon. Wich is strange imo.

2 birds with 1 stone so to say.

Can we also talk about the allied quad? Insta kills planes so you can't possibly counter artillery anymore since you can't get vision. Try to play against that when they have the B4 or smth.

I don't see how this is any different for the other factions. Ostwind, Quad, Centaur and AA halftrack are all very good at taking out planes. At least in team games you can always rely on OKW flares which cannot be countered.

I don't see how this is any different for the other factions. Ostwind, Quad, Centaur and AA halftrack are all very good at taking out planes. At least in team games you can always rely on OKW flares which cannot be countered.

Because some of them are overproportional good, beeing so good, that they counter multible 200mun abilities by their own, solo.

You would lough if Ostwind would have same AA power as Centaur xDDD Or if 222 has same power than Quad. They arn't balanced right verus their enemies.

You have to see the mass of planes, the price, the speed, the DPS on time or on impact. -> e.g. it is way easier to shood down a fragmentation bomber (Ostheer) than soviet bombing run by the tools of your enemy.


That is no trolling, but funny to say. Because that are things most people see since years but don't say something.

Edit: for me 222 and Ostwind are fine. Quad has the problem of beeing the only AA vehicle, making it an ultra vehicle without handycap is kind of poor design. By beeing that mobile and cheap (for the power) it should need some stationary ability, so it becomse counter-able. While Centaur is simply OP as AA.

I made a video to show how OP the Quad as AA is in comparison to Ostwind. It is imply sad xDDD

the experiment was 1 Ost vs 1 quad without vet, with full vet. 2 quad vs 2 ostwind. (no 3 vet, because the result was clear, can be added if wantet. My made had to go, that was the reason )

All versus british bombing-run. It needs fast kill-rate. So fast aiming + damage + reload + turning rate.

quad AA could probably be toned down a bit, but keep in mind too that its one of the squishiest AA units going and also costs a boat load of muni. unlike the 222 for example who is roughly equal in other cost and durability.

edit, while the ostwind is definitly an AA unit, thats not really its main job. you also have a unit that can take as many hits as a normal tank, speedy enough to chase/flee and can even bounce standard medium tank shells ontop of mulching infantry. the ostwind SHOULDNT be as good as the quad because its already so good at so many other things including pressuring the enemy line, you dont build an ostwind to sit it behind the lines and shoot at planes like you would a quad.

quad AA could probably be toned down a bit, but keep in mind too that its one of the squishiest AA units going and also costs a boat load of muni. unlike the 222 for example who is roughly equal in other cost and durability.

+ extras

That it true.

But to be fair, the soviets are lacking an unit between. Only some modders could make something to fix, e.g. PTRS versus plains (as ability etc.) or a special AA structure.

edit: but its no reason to simply counter everything with one vehilce. 2 are enouth to kill everything in air.

That it true.

But to be fair, the soviets are lacking an units between. Only some modders could make something to fix, e.g. PTRS versus plains (as ability etc.) or a special AA structure.

edit: but its no reason to simply counter everything with one vehilce. 2 are enouth to kill everything in air.

meh, it was an issue before when tech was split (and back then the quad couldnt shoot down anything anyways) but now the quad is accessible and will still eat up cap (and those munitions to unlock) so it has a heavy impact with little else by means to reap rewards while ALSO being squishy. its a glass cannon of AA.

meanwhile the only ost armour that doesnt help shoot down planes iirc is the werfer, so the ostwind doesn't NEED to be a god at AA because volume of fire does the trick.

if anything the quad, while defintly disrupting air power helps you as a player take the ground as there will be less mines, strikes, snares and abilities. manage to take it out and you strike a hard blow to the enemy as well.

like i said, it could be toned down a bit, but if any unit deserves to be the best AA it probably should be the quad, or maybe the bofors...

meh, it was an issue before when tech was split (and back then the quad couldnt shoot down anything anyways) but now the quad is accessible and will still eat up cap (and those munitions to unlock) so it has a heavy impact with little else by means to reap rewards while ALSO being squishy. its a glass cannon of AA.

meanwhile the only ost armour that doesnt help shoot down planes iirc is the werfer, so the ostwind doesn't NEED to be a god at AA because volume of fire does the trick.

if anything the quad, while defintly disrupting air power helps you as a player take the ground as there will be less mines, strikes, snares and abilities. manage to take it out and you strike a hard blow to the enemy as well.

like i said, it could be toned down a bit, but if any unit deserves to be the best AA it probably should be the quad, or maybe the bofors...

Yo udon't understand me, it is not about making Ostwind the best. But Quad is simply OP as fu**. ^^ In 1vs1 it is ok, but everything over 3vs3 it becomes boring.

-> and sweet community, fixing larger game-mode is the key, not only looking on 1vs1. (every more or less good balanced mod out there is based on larger multiplayer)

T70 OP
Quad OP
T34/76 OP
T34/85 OP
Katyusha OP
Cons OP
Guards OP
Shocks OP
SU85 OP
M3 OP
ZiS OP
IS2 OP

Let's get it on boys, carry on!

50 cal OP!

Oops wrong thread.

T70 OP
Quad OP
T34/76 OP
T34/85 OP
Katyusha OP
Cons OP
Guards OP
Shocks OP
SU85 OP
M3 OP
ZiS OP
IS2 OP

Let's get it on boys, carry on!

Something is only op, if the counters doesn't work with same effect as the enemies. e.g. that is why Elefant is less OP than ISU, because SU can counter PaKs. Doesn't making the Elefant bad in its spot, but one vehilce simply gives you more for the price, or your enemy is lacking same cheap or effective counters, killing the micro-balance.

Sometimes there are still larger fraction-design errors. This often happens if units are missing or there are too much, and some nice designer are making good-versus-everything stuff, or mixing things. e.g. old Volks with Schrecks, or now the Quad. Good pinning tool, with some Penals can't be counters by 222 or Luchs and Puma. Story goes on... it is so simply and isn't about fractions, it is about game-design.

This forum is full of trolls... sad story of CoH.

T70 UP
Quad UP
T34/76 UP
T34/85 UP
Katyusha UP
Cons UP
Guards UP
Shocks UP
SU85 UP
M3 UP
ZiS UP
IS2 UP

Let's get it on boys, carry on!

T70 UP
Quad UP
T34/76 UP
T34/85 UP
Katyusha UP
Cons UP
Guards UP
Shocks UP
SU85 UP
M3 UP
ZiS UP
IS2 UP

Let's get it on boys, carry on!

It would be more realistic if most units mentioned where ost. Most people are claiming ost is the weakest faction by far and have no strong points what so ever.

T70 OP
Quad OP
T34/76 OP
T34/85 OP
Katyusha OP
Cons OP
Guards OP
Shocks OP
SU85 OP
M3 OP
ZiS OP
IS2 OP

Let's get it on boys, carry on!

No need to be sarcastic. The problem of Soviets isn't so much a single unit but the combination of good units overall, which leaves Soviets with no disadvantage.

It comes down to the question of what makes a good faction? I would say the following aspects (I marked every aspect for the Soviets with school grades (A - F):

1. Cheap units
a) Upfront unit cost (Soviet units are amongst the cheapest in the game) A
b) Reinforcement cost (Soviet infantry is amongst the cheapest to reinforce, Elite inf is a bit more expensive) B
c) Do Upgrades have to be researched? (This is actually a weakness since Molotovs and AT-Nades have to be researched) D

2. Firepower
a) DPS (Soviet infantry maintains a decent DPS) C
b) Wipe potential (Best wiping potential in the game due to big and cheap guns, 120mm mortar, Zis barrage, good mines, T-34/85, KV 8, ISU 152, smaller Axis Squads) A
c) Range (two 60 range TDs, Soviets are good here) A
d) Artillery options (Best artillery options in the game, 152mm, 120mm mortar, B4, Kat) A
e) Flexibility of their units (the abilites are good on some units like the ZIS and bad on others like the T-34 capping ability) C

3. Durability
a) Large squad sices (Soviets have the largest squads and the largest weapon crews) A
b) High HP and armour on vehicles (Again, excellent grades for Soviets, KV1s that can take more hits than Panthers, a great performing IS-2 and of course KV-8s that can dominate Paks even midgame). A

Now where exactly is Soviets weakness? They EXCEL at cost, firepower and durability of their units.

I made a video to show how OP the Quad as AA is in comparison to Ostwind. It is imply sad xDDD

the experiment was 1 Ost vs 1 quad without vet, with full vet. 2 quad vs 2 ostwind. (no 3 vet, because the result was clear, can be added if wantet. My made had to go, that was the reason )

All versus british bombing-run. It needs fast kill-rate. So fast aiming + damage + reload + turning rate.

I mean, to me it doesn't really look that bad. The Ostwind was slightly slower at killing the planes, but because you placed the Ostwind in the direct flight path, it had to swing the turret all the way around to track, losing a lot of shooting time, which made the difference in AA firepower seem more drastic than it is in actual games. The first plane was also still shot down very quickly, which means the Ostwind practically offers the same protection as the Quad in terms of protecting a Howitzer battery from recon+bombstrike.

Now where exactly is Soviets weakness? They EXCEL at cost, firepower and durability of their units.

Where’s the Soviets weakness? Let’s see:

You have to rush the t70 or you lose the game to a light vehicle, especially vs OKW. You can’t fight this light vehicle unless you pay 100mp 15 fuel to get snares. If you get an AT gun, its rate of fire is abhorrent and you likely won’t get the killing blow on the light vehicle. Any other early AT is doctrinal (guards) or doctrinal and useless lategame (47mm). You don’t get a good MG unless you pick a Dshka doctrine. You have no infantry for offense unless you sidetech to T1 (Penals). Your workhorse medium tank has the least pen of all mediums and dies to 4 AT gun shots.

I mean, to me it doesn't really look that bad. The Ostwind was slightly slower at killing the planes, but because you placed the Ostwind in the direct flight path, it had to swing the turret all the way around to track, losing a lot of shooting time, which made the difference in AA firepower seem more drastic than it is in actual games. The first plane was also still shot down very quickly, which means the Ostwind practically offers the same protection as the Quad in terms of protecting a Howitzer battery from recon+bombstrike.

I made it to test the ingame-performance. e.g. OKW flak-base is only turning, instead of shooting, because it is simply to slow. Same for Ostwind etc. simply don't shoot because of bad stats (too fast plain, or too slow turret rotation). Then the reload of Ostwind often breaks the run.

You can see the difference when 2 of them are build, Quatds can shoot down the bombers even befor the run, no bomb hits the target. -> that is simply too good.

Ostwind is more or less fine, but quad seems to overperform. In the experiment one Quad performs even better than 2 Ostwinds.

I made it to test the ingame-performance. e.g. OKW flak-base is only turning, instead of shooting, because it is simply to slow. Same for Ostwind etc. simply don't shoot because of bad stats (too fast plain, or too slow turret rotation). Then the reload of Ostwind often breaks the run.

You can see the difference when 2 of them are build, Quatds can shoot down the bombers even befor the run, no bomb hits the target. -> that is simply too good.

Ostwind is more or less fine, but quad seems to overperform. In the experiment one Quad performs even better than 2 Ostwinds.

. Made the tests to emulate in game performance but I don't think I have ever seen a pair of m5 quads built at the same time let alone sitting around for AA. that's how you get over run by armour. I HAVE however seen multiple Ostwind's at a time...

The quad has to be effective at AA because that's more or less the only feasible thing it can do late game. If you try and use it on the front it can be deleted in a blink (like, there's actually 4 units that will literally OHK it) you are comparing an over grown T70 with medium tank durability that can ALSO shoot down tanks with an HMG that can also shoot down planes. It's a significant tally in favor of the Ostwind for general stats and forgiveness as well as battle field impact (obviously it also costs more too)

The quad, if it fails to shoot down a plane rapidly could literally then be killed by the plane very rapidly (stuka at loiter for example)
Its a glass cannon by every metric when it comes to AA.

I made it to test the ingame-performance. e.g. OKW flak-base is only turning, instead of shooting, because it is simply to slow. Same for Ostwind etc. simply don't shoot because of bad stats (too fast plain, or too slow turret rotation). Then the reload of Ostwind often breaks the run.

You can see the difference when 2 of them are build, Quatds can shoot down the bombers even befor the run, no bomb hits the target. -> that is simply too good.

Ostwind is more or less fine, but quad seems to overperform. In the experiment one Quad performs even better than 2 Ostwinds.

-I'll argue that all AA should work at the same power level as the Quad. While you can field AA on teamgames, it's a luxury and a conscious decision on 1v1.

-AA can't counter single payload planes in a real game. You don't have free vision and by the time you can see the plane it already has delivered it's payload and it's already leaving the map. If you actually kill it, there's a high chance the plane will crash towards your units.

-AA can't counter most of the time recon planes. Same as single payload planes. There's also a bug which is probably there since game release, on which planes will keep giving vision after they crash in direction North East.

-AA real job is to counter LOITER PLANES.
With this in mind, there are some AA platforms which have decent to great AA capabilities but they lack turret rotations which might make them sometimes unable to fire at all.