Jagdpanzer 4 nerf nao

Maybe he is right maybe M36 needs few nerf to give the Shermans 76mm, Easy8, Dozer upgraded time to shine.

Then pls make e8 non doctrinal and we gut

While many of Taxman's complaints are completely divorced from reality (it somehow can't bounce anything despite having 230 armor, 4 less than the extremely heavily armored PIV J and only 30 less than the Panther), it is certainly correct that in 1v1s the PIV J does not see much play. The reasons for this are pretty straightforward. The PIV J already bullies all non-doc Allied mediums simply because it has so much armor, so the Jagdpanzer isn't necessary to bully mediums. Better to just bully mediums with your medium tank that is also excellent vs. infantry. On the flipside, the Jagdpanzer is overshadowed at going toe-to-toe with heavies by the Panther, which also has better anti-infantry with the MG.

The only real role it has given the power level of the two tanks it competes with as anti-TD, which it performs well at. It has a faster rate of fire than Allied TDs, and penetrates them 100% of the time at every range while sometimes bouncing frontal shots at long range. The problem it has in this role is that the SU-85 is self-spotting, and the Jackson has the mobility and on-the-move accuracy necessary to just dive it. But yeah, this niche overall isn't that useful in 1v1s. The actual stats of the unit are quite good, so the only way to make it widely usable in 1v1s without it being completely busted in team games is to nerf the PIV J and Panther.

While I personally only care about 1v1s, its more important for the health of the community (which is overwhelmingly team game players) that their balance is not sacrificed on the alter of every unit being made top level 1v1 viable.

..It has a faster rate of fire than Allied TDs, and penetrates them 100% of the time at every range while sometimes bouncing frontal shots at long range...

ROF of JP is very close to that of SU-85 up to vet 3.

ROF of JP is very close to that of SU-85 up to vet 3.

Close, but faster. 5 seconds vs. 5.65 at vet zero. That matters because the Jagdpanzer is significantly more likely to get off the killing blow first, especially when it pens the SU-85 100% of the time but not vis versa. I'm curious why you felt the need to contest this point when it is correct?

The disparity is relatively small at vet 3, but significant once the Jagdpanzer reaches vet 5.

Close, but faster. 5 seconds vs. 5.65 at vet zero. That matters because the Jagdpanzer is significantly more likely to get off the killing blow first, especially when it pens the SU-85 100% of the time but not vis versa. I'm curious why you felt the need to contest this point when it is correct?

The disparity is relatively small at vet 3, but significant once the Jagdpanzer reaches vet 5.

im quite sure the su 85 get's to shot first thank to self spotting , better rotation

im quite sure the su 85 get's to shot first thank to self spotting , better rotation and turret traverse

Yep, which is something I noted in my post as an issue it has facing it. On the other hand, the Jagdpanzer gets camo for some reason, so it actually can get the first shot off consistently. If there are not other tanks on either side, then there is simply no reason for there to be a Jagdpanzer and SU-85 on the field. In a straight slugging match, the Jagdpanzer has the advantage.

btw if people have problem with the armomr nerf it by 80 and make it cost 100 fu and 340 mp


or keep the Price but increase the pen by 50

How does it not shut down mediums completely with guaranteed pen on all ranges (Easy 8 and upgraded Shermans being the only exception, and the Comet if you'd count it as an average medium), 60 range, higher ROF than any Allied TD, high accuracy, 17 target size and 230 front armor?

It wipes the floor with medium tanks and TDs, especially with vet, and is decent against heavies due to high ROF. Scales incredibly well. It might not be the best unit for 1v1s, mainly because it's simply overshadowed by the Panzer IV and the Panther in that mode, but it's a fantastic unit in teamgames.

The dimension I find lacking for the JP4 with regard to mediums is mobility. It is the least moble TD from my experience and therefore it is more difficult to line up shots on the offense or while reversing defensively. Manuevering around corners is also harder. The Guaranteed Pen is a given with most TD vs Medium match ups so actually getting the shots off is where I find it the lesser TD.

The SU85 also has the ability to get extra shots off or provide utility through self spotting and the Stug is the best non turret TD for being aggressive due to the price point and speed/acceleration.
I also think the vet is not focused on Mobility for this unit, where as the SU85 becomes quite mobile at vet 3.

Do you have any replays where it is used to great effect? Even Playing in 4v4's I see it at a lesser frequency than most other OKW vehicles.

Close, but faster. 5 seconds vs. 5.65 at vet zero. That matters because the Jagdpanzer is significantly more likely to get off the killing blow first, especially when it pens the SU-85 100% of the time but not vis versa. I'm curious why you felt the need to contest this point when it is correct?

The disparity is relatively small at vet 3, but significant once the Jagdpanzer reaches vet 5.

The reason I have pointed out the ROF is that it has been used as the "selling point" of JP over the cheaper SU-85. (The difference is 0.65 secs at vet 0 down to 0.05 secs at vet 3 hardly noticeable)

Sure the JP will beat SU-85 or FF or M36 if they decide to slug it out. On the other hand it not more cost efficient than SU-85 vs mediums while being significantly less cost efficient vs heavily armored targets.

In its current incarnation its it too expensive in cost and pop vs the units it good at countering Medium/TDs while being inferior to allied TDs vs heavily armored targets.

try again without going after katitof in every post.