Only thing I'd like to see is the two extra shells for the Major offmap at vet 2 replaced by something else (more ability range / shorter cooldown / reduced munitions cost).
The barrage has about 3/4 chance to destroy a Pak43 or LefH with a single barrage at vet 2 compared to a 1/4 chance before vet 2. It's simply a too cost effective and accessible counter to these doctrinal units, making them suicidal against USF even if reasonably defended.
The USF Major and Off map
4 Nov 2019, 15:32 PM
#21
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
4 Nov 2019, 15:52 PM
#22
Posts: 3260
They could stand to lose Shared Vet. That's a mechanic better suited to support units like halftracks. Officers (apart from the Major) are all frontline combat units.
Beyond that, though? USF officers work fine imo.
Beyond that, though? USF officers work fine imo.
4 Nov 2019, 17:31 PM
#24
Posts: 3029 | Subs: 3
Actually UKF can spot, not sure how the ability is called but it's the one that reveals the whole map by sending 4 or 5 recon planes in a straight line.
Edit: It's "Assault" in the Commando Regiment.
UKF also has the recon loiter from the command vehicle and the one from Tactical Support Regiment HQ.
sometimes this ability sends only 2 or 3 planes, not revealing everything. Dunno if its a bug or not.
The other abilities you mentioned are useless vs a target that is deep behind enemy lines unless you are lucky and the command vehicle plane arrives from that direction
4 Nov 2019, 18:08 PM
#25
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Vipper, this idea is really bad.
+1
Outside of moving supervise to major and making Cpt support abilities more useful.
Tell you what, test in cheat mode how many AA units you need to stop a vet 1 major from providing vision to a certain area and come back with the result...
TBH, that says more about the AA mechanics in the game and how bugged vision on planes have been through the years.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
4 Nov 2019, 18:12 PM
#26
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
TBH, that says more about the AA mechanics in the game and how bugged vision on planes have been through the years.
AA mechanics or how bugged the vision of planes is hardly relevant. They need an overhaul but that is another story.
The bottom line is that Major recon pass has a very high probability to reveal any target it is required without any counter especially at vet 1, at low cost and without taking up a commander slot. That makes all USF off maps more powerful.
The fact that USF off map and indirect fire support have been buffed has turned this into unjustifiable problematic ability.
4 Nov 2019, 18:39 PM
#27
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
AA mechanics or how bugged the vision of planes is hardly relevant. They need an overhaul but that is another story.
The bottom line is that Major recon pass has a very high probability to reveal any target it is required without any counter especially at vet 1 at low cost without taking up a commander slot. That makes all USF off maps more powerful.
It is relevant, because you asked how difficult is to counter planes which provide vision to use offmaps. AA is not meant (in it's current state) to counter the effects of a plane on arrival but rather deny loitering effects.
One part of your issue is with a mechanic present in the game.
The other part comes from it been non doctrinal ability USF has to access recon planes. Which while not as readily easy to use as commander ability, it still becomes handy to have.
This is basically ingrained in faction design (faction X has tools that faction Y has doctrinally but lacks features that faction Y has no doc) and commander design.
You consider this an issue, other users including me don't think that's the case.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
4 Nov 2019, 19:34 PM
#28
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Other than high level 2v2 tournament play where ATs coordinate recon + offmanps to deny howies and such I don't see how Major Recon is that game breaking. Your average player (almost everyone really) never rebuilds the major once he dies and that's not even mentioning that fact that almost everyone seems to forget the Major even has the ability.
4 Nov 2019, 21:11 PM
#29
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
It is relevant, because you asked how difficult is to counter planes which provide vision to use offmaps. AA is not meant (in it's current state) to counter the effects of a plane on arrival but rather deny loitering effects.
One part of your issue is with a mechanic present in the game.
Not really Major Recon is not a loiter plane and use different mechanics, it also becomes nearly uncounterable with vet 1. One could try to replace with a loiter plane circling above the major.
The other part comes from it been non doctrinal ability USF has to access recon planes. Which while not as readily easy to use as commander ability, it still becomes handy to have.
This is basically ingrained in faction design (faction X has tools that faction Y has doctrinally but lacks features that faction Y has no doc) and commander design.
You consider this an issue, other users including me don't think that's the case.
It was an ingrained ability but the major was buffed thru the room and so where USF Off map.
In addition as I already have mentioned USF got allot easier access to indirect fire support weapons.
Thus one has to ask the question does the USF actually need a all this utility from the Major?
4 Nov 2019, 21:48 PM
#30
Posts: 528 | Subs: 1
Thus one has to ask the question does the USF actually need a all this utility from the Major?
Yes.
5 Nov 2019, 00:19 AM
#31
Posts: 1096
Thus one has to ask the question does the USF actually need a all this utility from the Major?
As it's a question.
Yes.
Yes, they do.
5 Nov 2019, 00:39 AM
#32
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Thus one has to ask the question does the USF actually need a all this utility from the Major?
Does the game need the major to be one of the best designed units focused on high utility and a high skill cap to make the most use out of him, in an era where blobs and pure DPS reigns above all?
You already know the answer.
5 Nov 2019, 08:24 AM
#33
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
They could stand to lose Shared Vet. That's a mechanic better suited to support units like halftracks. Officers (apart from the Major) are all frontline combat units.
Beyond that, though? USF officers work fine imo.
Do they?
Imo:
Passive sprint was removed from other unit and for good reason.
Lt being superior to Captain with a grenade and bazooka unlock.
Supervision not worth using.
Smoke and frag grenade/barrage not is share CD as other units.
Major can be used in suicide dirty cheap bombing missions.
A barrage buffed thru the roof at some point when USF had trouble vs Pak walls when now it is hardly the case.
Fake barrage not really worth it since the HE barrage is so dirty cheap and effective.
Cheap reckon pass with 2 planes from both sides of the map.
Lock down sectors.
5 Nov 2019, 10:16 AM
#34
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Do they?
Imo:
Passive sprint was removed from other unit and for good reason.
Lt being superior to Captain with a grenade and bazooka unlock.
Supervision not worth using.
Smoke and frag grenade/barrage not is share CD as other units.
Major can be used in suicide dirty cheap bombing missions.
A barrage buffed thru the roof at some point when USF had trouble vs Pak walls when now it is hardly the case.
Fake barrage not really worth it since the HE barrage is so dirty cheap and effective.
Cheap reckon pass with 2 planes from both sides of the map.
Lock down sectors.
Passive Sprint is something I agree with. I have absolutely no idea why USF officers have this while vet 5 Füssiliers got it removed considering how easy it is to get the USF officers to vet 3.
Supervision from CPT is pretty good when you use it to boost AAHT production. Not sure why you call it not worth using. Same as for example when you need a fast ATG or want to boost late game Sherman/Jackson production time.
5 Nov 2019, 10:20 AM
#35
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
Supervision from CPT is pretty good when you use it to boost AAHT production. Not sure why you call it not worth using. Same as for example when you need a fast ATG or want to boost late game Sherman/Jackson production time.
Read OP about suggestions to improve "supervision"...
5 Nov 2019, 10:51 AM
#36
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
Supervision from CPT is pretty good when you use it to boost AAHT production. Not sure why you call it not worth using. Same as for example when you need a fast ATG or want to boost late game Sherman/Jackson production time.
was about to write pretty much the same. plus the techless bar can be quite handy in early infantry engagements, too, so i don't see the lt much ahead in terms of viability.
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
5 Nov 2019, 10:57 AM
#37
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
Read OP about suggestions to improve "supervision"...
why would he, he pretty much summed up already why supervision doesn't need to be shuffled around in the first place. it's better off on a combat-viable unit so that you actually have to choose between using it to speed up production/tech or increasing field presence.
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
5 Nov 2019, 11:01 AM
#38
Posts: 1220
Great ideas vipper i see you are serious about improving usf faction. Keep it up.
5 Nov 2019, 11:16 AM
#39
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Passive Sprint is something I agree with. I have absolutely no idea why USF officers have this while vet 5 Füssiliers got it removed considering how easy it is to get the USF officers to vet 3.
My bet is, single squad doing it is a little bit less impactful then WHOLE FUCKING AT/AI BLOB being allowed to do the same.
You can't exactly spam officers.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Nov 2019, 11:28 AM
#40
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
My bet is, single squad doing it is a little bit less impactful then WHOLE FUCKING AT/AI BLOB being allowed to do the same.
You can't exactly spam officers.
I am not saying Füssiliers should get vet 5 passive sprint back. That was a good change. What I am saying is that the USF officers shouldn't get passive sprint for no apparent reason. The USF officers are already very good as they are with the Garand buffs and overall potency of USF.
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