CoH2 Patch News!

well...

Sprint: oh that seems cool

Stormtroopers: interesting but nothing a good player shouldn't be able to handle.

Break Supply Line: Well that seems kind of annoying.

Breakthrough: oh because german blitz wasn't bad enough, more speed and now they can cap.

Crush the pocket: Fuck this gay earth

That sounds really nasty depending on how powerful the arty is. Combination of Stuka bomb, storm troopers, and breakthrough tanks all cutting you off, then your entire defensive position gets shelled!! Yeiks.

needs to be more free content to balance out all the paid dlc. like when are we gonna get free commanders that have all those new units.

You don't have to make all new units free, so long as they are balanced.

Look at vcoh, you didn't have to buy any of the expansions to carry on using USA or Germans.

Those factions were balanced?

Disagree, All I see is a lot of commanders lacking in creativity and being released unpredictably.

I think it would have been nice to see 5 well designed commanders for each side total. Putting more of them in to make up for the fact that there are only two factions now is silly.

I'm not adverse to another 2 factions being added to this game. I would welcome it, if they were well thought out and worked. But using commanders as a way to keep the game fresh is not a sustainable method. it's shallow and counter productive.

I understand that people gotta make money, but hey - why not make games worth paying for because of what there core offers, rather than what you can tack on later at £1.50 a pop. Just saying.

Here's to a smaller number of well thought out, commanders

After considering some thoughts, i feel adding many of the doctrinal units and abilities as default abilities and having few really varied doctrines (about 5 like you said) to choose from will cause much more interesting and open game.... but that seems to radical too actually happen...

I find it unlikely that anything requiring UI changes will happen.

After considering some thoughts, i feel adding many of the doctrinal units and abilities as default abilities and having few really varied doctrines (about 5 like you said) to choose from will cause much more interesting and open game.... but that seems to radical too actually happen...

That would be great, but as you said, never going to happen.

It's not going to happen because it's incredibly unreasonable. Just think about what you're asking.

You're adding many, many units to the default builds. This multiplies balance complexity by every unit added so.

Then on top of that, you want even more distinct and strong commanders, which then multiply the complexity even further?

You're essentially asking for the wild wild west of gaming where everyone has super powered units and super powered commander abilities to combine with that.

It's not going to happen because it's incredibly unreasonable. Just think about what you're asking.


You're essentially asking for the wild wild west of gaming where everyone has super powered units and super powered commander abilities to combine with that.

True, but isn't what you are describing true right now as well?

In some ways, yes. That's why I was saying that you're asking for more of the same on an extreme level.

I'm ready to be just as upset at Relic and Sega as you guys are, but every patch has made progress. If they ever took another step across that line, I'm ready to leave the community. I've actually warned others to stay away until they balance more overall. And I'm being pretty cautious about the two new paid commanders.

But I also note that we're getting an ability from a paid commander, the Soviet 45mm AT gun for free with the defensive commander.

The funny thing is, people complain about skins when skins are the things you should be clamoring for as paid DLC instead commanders. Heck, as silly as faceplates are, it's still better than paid commanders.

And I was there from CoH1's launch and well into its old age. It took a long time to balance that game. I see it as it really was, not with the rose tinted glasses others have. I know how long it will take to get CoH2 to the same level.

The real reason why we can`t ever go back to having just 5 archetypical commanders isn`t higher level of complexity and resulting balance issues. That could be resolved (at least theoretically, I am not judging Relic`s capabilities here).

The main issue is that such a move would mean abolishing many commanders that a lot of people bought with real money which would create a huge sh*tstorm of rage against Relic, people would call them thieves, demand their money back etc. It`s unthinkable.

The second most imporatnt reason is that making new commanders and selling them is a way of making money for the devs/publisher. Moving away from this concept would mean that this money inflow would end.

In some ways, yes. That's why I was saying that you're asking for more of the same on an extreme level.

I'm ready to be just as upset at Relic and Sega as you guys are, but every patch has made progress. If they ever took another step across that line, I'm ready to leave the community. I've actually warned others to stay away until they balance more overall. And I'm being pretty cautious about the two new paid commanders.

But I also note that we're getting an ability from a paid commander, the Soviet 45mm AT gun for free with the defensive commander.

The funny thing is, people complain about skins when skins are the things you should be clamoring for as paid DLC instead commanders. Heck, as silly as faceplates are, it's still better than paid commanders.

And I was there from CoH1's launch and well into its old age. It took a long time to balance that game. I see it as it really was, not with the rose tinted glasses others have. I know how long it will take to get CoH2 to the same level.

I agree mostly with that.

My main concern is, Relic seems hell bent on introducing Kangaroo carrier every month, to use point of reference from COH and it eventually being balanced. It took months and months and patches and patches to balance COH.
How do you balance the game if you keep introducing OP units/commanders every month or two?
No one will buy DLC unless there is value in it, and value is new units and OP stuff. So I can't see Relic giving up on DLC, and I can't see how the game will be balanced.

The answer is most likely, you cannot. So this game will become very expensive P2W game with bunch of OP things and no strategies to deal with it.

Like yourself, I am still here and hoping. But my hope is diminishing with every day passing...

What they should do is focus on fixing the game itself. There is a long list of things that players keep posting and asking to be fixed. Once they do that and most people are happy, then go and bring your DLC and whatever.

Right now there are 1,565 people online on COH2, and 1,298 on COH1. One is 7 years old the other dont even have 7 months... do the math how many people will play COH2 in 7 years from now. Don't tell me but now is saturday night in America or morning in Europe. Before COH1 was moved to steam more people played it than both combined now. If COH1 gets fixed like it was before I am sure it will get better numbers than COH2.

Sorry for being negative, but I am slowly loosing hope for this game. Was so happy when they announced COH2 and pre-ordered it on the very first day. After all this will think twice for next one.

In some ways, yes. That's why I was saying that you're asking for more of the same on an extreme level.

I'm ready to be just as upset at Relic and Sega as you guys are, but every patch has made progress. If they ever took another step across that line, I'm ready to leave the community. I've actually warned others to stay away until they balance more overall. And I'm being pretty cautious about the two new paid commanders.

But I also note that we're getting an ability from a paid commander, the Soviet 45mm AT gun for free with the defensive commander.

The funny thing is, people complain about skins when skins are the things you should be clamoring for as paid DLC instead commanders. Heck, as silly as faceplates are, it's still better than paid commanders.

And I was there from CoH1's launch and well into its old age. It took a long time to balance that game. I see it as it really was, not with the rose tinted glasses others have. I know how long it will take to get CoH2 to the same level.

I'm not upset but what frustrates me is that all these new units are coming out but they are doctrinal specific... i do not want to be narrowed into one doctrine whenever i want to use soviet bunker, tank trap, partisan, three start unit, assault gren, or kv 1 etc...

As for now (correct me if i'm wrong), Osteer has 15 basic units and 10 doctrinal units(increasing), not counting emplacements. Soviet has 14 basic units and 9 doctrinal units(increasing) not counting emplacements. I think that is too much doctrinal units. May be every tier building can contain one more unit and we can have only 6-7 doctrinal units.

I think you drastically overestimate how many active players there were for CoH1 7 months after release. It's a rose tinted glasses thing again where you remember an old game you love a bit too good.

The reality is CoH1 never sold that well in the short term. Anyone still playing are the die hards or people who got in one one of the many sales and stayed. But CoH1's sales numbers in any monthly or 6 month basis while decent, were never great, and neither were the active player numbers. The only reason why we got this sequel is because CoH1 kept selling for a long, long time and maintenance of its gamespy powered online play cost next to nothing. Then there's the expansions which added more casual modes of play.

I also think that, overall, the market for old style 1v1 RTS games, even CoH's signature take on it, has been long in decline. Look around the market and try to think of any RTS series that has survived. It's really only Starcraft 2, which survives based solely on Blizzard's rep and nostalgia, and in a distant second is CoH2. Command and Conquer is pretty much dead, with even the free to play version being canceled and some nebulous talk of it being revived later.

I've posted elsewhere on my thoughts for reviving the player base by adding good distinct and concise team oriented play, which always helps bring in people since people love team games, as evidenced by the explosion of team based semi-RTS games.

But, I digress.

All this DLC that people see was probably part of Relic's original CoH2 plan even if THQ and Sega didn't get involved. Why? Because it would monetize those long term dedicated players and provide new gameplay that could be balanced by limiting the unit combinations, that applies to both paid and free commanders.

Someone mentioned the CoH1 Kangaroo. I left the CoH1 community before it was released, or before that unit took off. All I heard was it was one of those broken units everyone complained about. But, I suspect the reason why it stuck in people's mind so much was that CoH1's patching process was at a near dead standstill by the time it came out. As such, the unit that would have been just a blip on the balance meter, became a long term stain on the community.

The reason for this is that they had no way to monetize the further development and maintenance of the game. Patching slowed down as manpower and resources were devoted to future games like DoW2, CoH2, and some other projects that THQ sent to Relic, like Space Marine.

The only reason why CoH1 got its final balance patch was that the CoH Online free to play game failed, which allowed them to take all the code and engine changes from that and fold it into CoH1. You know a game is dead when the only reason it's updated is that there's leftover chunks of another failed game to combine with it.

However, on the positive side, it's been a little over 4 months since release of CoH2 and not counting minor updates, we've gotten 14 major updates, including new maps, new free commanders, and yes, the paid commanders. That's over 3 patches a month.

That's why I think that these DLC commanders are only skirting the line between pay to win and fun new gameplay, and that's because the patching process on these has been quick, and have always addressed many issues brought up by the community. We've only had to wait about 2 weeks between updates, or announcements of updates.

Which is not to say that it couldn't turn to the dark side in an instant. If they hadn't have released the patch to address AGrens meta power and FHQ bugs as quickly as they did, or if they don't continue to address them as players use them more. Heck, if they release those 2 new paid commanders on the 12th as broken as the first paid commanders were, it's a really bad sign.

These look cool. Excited about the upcoming patch =)

I think you drastically overestimate how many active players there were for CoH1 7 months after release. It's a rose tinted glasses thing again where you remember an old game you love a bit too good.

Cannot compare COH and COH2 sale numbers @ 7 months after release.

COH was game that not many people bought at start, it was pretty much unknown game. Later on it got great reviews from gaming sites and community, then it took off. Number of players grew steadily, and after 7 years it had pretty strong numbers.

COH2 on the other hand, hit 450,000 sales 2 weeks into its life. Largely due to almost entire COH community buying the game, and strong brand name.

Two completely different situations and circumstances.

Little bit before COH went on steam, it was nothing unusual to see 6-7-8,000 players online. COH2 lost those peak numbers in August already.

Times I usually play (Australia) COH numbers at its death, were usually between 1900-2500, depending on the day. COH2 only 800-1000

Tho I agree that Devs are doing good to fix balance issues quickly, etc.

Decisions to leave out Public chat, public custom games and lobby, introduction of Blizzards and assimetric faction design (Soviets are 2 hard to master for newbie in specific) add to that: half-finished feel the game had and problems with lag, command input, etc, etc.

I think all those just backfired and hit whoever made those decisions, right in between their eyes. Whether they want to admit it or not.

COH1 didn't sell many copies to start with, but finished strongly. COH2 sold a lot, but people left in droves.
None of my friends (real ones) wants to play it and most of my COH buddies don't wanna touch it. Mainly because of public Custom games and lobby.

So we got the official patch notes:

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog/page2

I`d say most of the things are generally steps in a right direction (vet system) and we`ll finally get the map editor (yaaay!).

BUT there are some dissapointments when comapred to the leaked notes/general expectations (assuming the official notes are complete and correct):

• Build-time of soviet tier 1/tier 2 building not reduced.
  
• Blitz (german vehicels` vet 1 ability) still available with damaged/destroyed engine.
  
• Soviet strafe not nerfed.
  
• German strafe (aka pin-plane) even buffed (wtf).
  

So we got the official patch notes:

• German strafe (aka pin-plane) even buffed (wtf).
  

The buffed strafe is the anti-tank strafe (found in Jaeger Infantry, Lightning War atleast), which preferrably targeted heavy vehicles in the area and did almost nothing to them before.