I think RM should be doctrinal. Just go 4 REs into LT. You'll be fiiine.
Good thing this game isn't balanced based on our opinions.
Jackson Nerf vs Making Panther Doctrinal
2 Nov 2019, 12:58 PM
#21
Posts: 177
2 Nov 2019, 14:04 PM
#22
Posts: 66
I said this before and will say this again. The jackson basically carries USF late game espically in those teamgame slugfest. Nerfing it basically cripples USF late game as USF lacks any viable AT option. USF AT guns requires muni dumps everytime anything stronger than a ostwind comes around(even HVAP isnt that powerful at vet 2 shot HVAP bounced on a brumbar on a very recent game) . Nerfing its health will cause tanks like elephant to basically wipe late game USF . I agree the jackson is a bit to strong but because it has to. If u want to nerf it you need to make another solid non-doc AT option. This means buffing the M1 AT gun/sherman/ add 76 sherman/zooks.
Please dont make the panther doctrinal. Its fine in its current state.
Please dont make the panther doctrinal. Its fine in its current state.
Give those Rear Echelon some love......
2 Nov 2019, 14:16 PM
#23
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
..even HVAP isnt that powerful at vet 2 shot HVAP bounced on a brumbar on a very recent gam...
HVAP has 96% chance to penetrate a Vet 0 Brumbar at range 60
HVAP has 87% chance to penetrate a Vet 2 Brumbar at range 60
HVAP has 97% chance to penetrate a vet 2 Brumbar at range 30
Once vetted the M35 HVAP will penetrate the Brumbar at all range with 100%
Just because it happened once does mean isn't that powerful", although one might argue that is not that powerful because the stock penetration get too high...
2 Nov 2019, 16:08 PM
#24
Posts: 888
I said this before and will say this again. The jackson basically carries USF late game espically in those teamgame slugfest. Nerfing it basically cripples USF late game as USF lacks any viable AT option. USF AT guns requires muni dumps everytime anything stronger than a ostwind comes around(even HVAP isnt that powerful at vet 2 shot HVAP bounced on a brumbar on a very recent game) . Nerfing its health will cause tanks like elephant to basically wipe late game USF . I agree the jackson is a bit to strong but because it has to. If u want to nerf it you need to make another solid non-doc AT option. This means buffing the M1 AT gun/sherman/ add 76 sherman/zooks.
Please dont make the panther doctrinal. Its fine in its current state.
This is true. The fact is I don't really want to see Panthers become doctrinal and with that you can't nerf the Jackson. People are acting like it's some jack of all trades impossible to counter vehicle. It literally only does one thing and that is destroy vehicles, particularly tanks...I guess that's why it's a "tank destroyer" yet Wehraboos feel like they should be able to blitz it with a Panzer IV. If the balance team caves to the Wehraboos on this next patch I think I'd seriously be done with this game.
2 Nov 2019, 16:24 PM
#25
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
HVAP has 96% chance to penetrate a Vet 0 Brumbar at range 60
HVAP has 87% chance to penetrate a Vet 2 Brumbar at range 60
HVAP has 97% chance to penetrate a vet 2 Brumbar at range 30
Once vetted the M35 HVAP will penetrate the Brumbar at all range with 100%
Just because it happened once does mean isn't that powerful", although one might argue that is not that powerful because the stock penetration get too high...
They were referring to 57mm HVAP at vet 2, not m36 HVAP against vet 2 brumbarr
Though I still think the odds of deflection are pretty rare in that situation too
2 Nov 2019, 17:24 PM
#26
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
They were referring to 57mm HVAP at vet 2, not m36 HVAP against vet 2 brumbarr
Though I still think the odds of deflection are pretty rare in that situation too
Those are "Sabot Rounds" not HVAP and thus my confusion.
M1 with Sabot has 195 penetration max range which higher than the Pak while having better ROF and cone and Brummbar has the same frontal armor as KV-8 and lower rear.
2 Nov 2019, 17:33 PM
#27
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
If the balance team caves to the Wehraboos on this next patch I think I'd seriously be done with this game.
That’s one decision everyone would applaud.
2 Nov 2019, 17:46 PM
#28
Posts: 888
That’s one decision everyone would applaud.
Yeah then you can play only custom OKW vs OKW matches and things will finally be perfectly balanced the way the Wehraboos want it.
2 Nov 2019, 17:52 PM
#29
Posts: 40
I have read a few times an idea to balance the Jackson by making HVAP a vet 0, no cost, munition swap, like the sherman with AP and HE, this way the Jackson has one type of munition to counter mediums, with good RoF, and acc, but lower penetration; and then HVAP with low RoF, low acc, but higher pen. The Jackson is still a jack of all trades, but requires some preparation before use and can be countered by good combined arms.
Taking into account the range and speed of the Jackson, if it's well supported, it could change munitions to always have the right ammo for the right target.
Taking into account the range and speed of the Jackson, if it's well supported, it could change munitions to always have the right ammo for the right target.
2 Nov 2019, 18:02 PM
#30
Posts: 783
Make e8 stock to give usf a more durable tank, with better at capabilities, and make m4a3 doctrinal. Nerf jackson rate of fire.
Now in Major tech you have tanks to fulfill every role. E8 is a durable jack of all trades with slight emphasis on AT performance, Scott is dedicated anti infantry indirect fire and jackson is dedicated to defeating heavy vehicles due to low rate of fire but high pen.
Now in Major tech you have tanks to fulfill every role. E8 is a durable jack of all trades with slight emphasis on AT performance, Scott is dedicated anti infantry indirect fire and jackson is dedicated to defeating heavy vehicles due to low rate of fire but high pen.
2 Nov 2019, 18:07 PM
#31
Posts: 3260
The Jackson needs to retain its peak effectiveness because it's the sole counter to heavy armour in the USF lineup.
What it doesn't need to retain is its positional flexibility. The Firefly and SU-85 play like big anti-tank guns: they need to set up in a good position with support to defend them from dives, and if they get caught out of position they're usually dead.
The Jackson plays like a medium tank: it can quite merrily maraud around the map, if it gets caught out of position it can happily fight back on the move and it stands a good chance to win that fight.
The Jackson's problem isn't its firepower: it needs that. Its problem is the flexibility with which it can apply it.
What it doesn't need to retain is its positional flexibility. The Firefly and SU-85 play like big anti-tank guns: they need to set up in a good position with support to defend them from dives, and if they get caught out of position they're usually dead.
The Jackson plays like a medium tank: it can quite merrily maraud around the map, if it gets caught out of position it can happily fight back on the move and it stands a good chance to win that fight.
The Jackson's problem isn't its firepower: it needs that. Its problem is the flexibility with which it can apply it.
2 Nov 2019, 18:19 PM
#32
Posts: 2358
"Jacksons carry USF lategame"... more like, "Jacksons club to death any kind of armour, wich are more commonly seen in lategame" (in a 1.5 : 1 ratio)
I find so funny that fanbois defend their precious TD because otherwise they should L2P.
In lategame axis tend to rely on heavy armour and team weapons, but allies have better infantry, TD and versatility. If jacksons deny all kind of armor (medium/heavy/superheavy) then a single unit is able to deny the enemy one big and very expensive tool. Axis indirect fire is not able to wipe allied infantry as much as jacksons deny and destroy axis armor, hence proving their Overperforming status.
The only slight difference between panthers and Jacksons is one has self repair and the other one not. If you want to make one doctrinal, make the other one too
I find so funny that fanbois defend their precious TD because otherwise they should L2P.
In lategame axis tend to rely on heavy armour and team weapons, but allies have better infantry, TD and versatility. If jacksons deny all kind of armor (medium/heavy/superheavy) then a single unit is able to deny the enemy one big and very expensive tool. Axis indirect fire is not able to wipe allied infantry as much as jacksons deny and destroy axis armor, hence proving their Overperforming status.
The only slight difference between panthers and Jacksons is one has self repair and the other one not. If you want to make one doctrinal, make the other one too
2 Nov 2019, 18:37 PM
#33
Posts: 3260
If jacksons deny all kind of armor (medium/heavy/superheavy) then a single unit is able to deny the enemy one big and very expensive tool.
Come on, distrofio, you know that's not true.
The Jackson is a highly cost efficient anti-tank vehicle. It's no more 'armour denial' than the Panther is.
2 Nov 2019, 19:33 PM
#34
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Yeah then you can play only custom OKW vs OKW matches and things will finally be perfectly balanced the way the Wehraboos want it.
You can call me a Wehraboo all you want, doesn’t add any weight to your nonexistent “arguments”.
2 Nov 2019, 20:18 PM
#35
Posts: 88
SU-85 doesn't exactly overshadow SU-76 in 100% of cases, even when SU-76 is clearly better and more optimal choice.
Want a chat about JP4?
At least StuG is in decent place in relation to panther for ost.
The most interesting thing about this post of yours is that you don't flatly go against what our little friend the OP is suggesting here
2 Nov 2019, 20:19 PM
#36
Posts: 88
This is true. The fact is I don't really want to see Panthers become doctrinal and with that you can't nerf the Jackson. People are acting like it's some jack of all trades impossible to counter vehicle. It literally only does one thing and that is destroy vehicles, particularly tanks...I guess that's why it's a "tank destroyer" yet Wehraboos feel like they should be able to blitz it with a Panzer IV. If the balance team caves to the Wehraboos on this next patch I think I'd seriously be done with this game.
Just stop now Kappa
2 Nov 2019, 20:45 PM
#37
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The most interesting thing about this post of yours is that you don't flatly go against what our little friend the OP is suggesting here
Ok, make panther doctrinal
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
2 Nov 2019, 23:07 PM
#38
Posts: 888
The Jackson needs to retain its peak effectiveness because it's the sole counter to heavy armour in the USF lineup.
What it doesn't need to retain is its positional flexibility. The Firefly and SU-85 play like big anti-tank guns: they need to set up in a good position with support to defend them from dives, and if they get caught out of position they're usually dead.
The Jackson plays like a medium tank: it can quite merrily maraud around the map, if it gets caught out of position it can happily fight back on the move and it stands a good chance to win that fight.
The Jackson's problem isn't its firepower: it needs that. Its problem is the flexibility with which it can apply it.
The Jackson is not flexible at all. The Pershing is flexible, the M4A3 is flexible, the Panther is actually a lot more flexible than a Jackson is. The Jackson only is effective against vehicles and that's why it's fine the way it is, there is NOTHING wrong with where its at except for in my opinion it deserves a longer sight radius.
2 Nov 2019, 23:10 PM
#39
Posts: 888
Can you please stop making balance threads? Noone cares about the balance suggestions of a rank 1300.
Well excuse me. Yeah I am just a rank 1300er but I guess I do know enough not to expect to counter a tank destroyer with a tank and then cry about it because it blows up my tank.
2 Nov 2019, 23:19 PM
#40
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Well excuse me. Yeah I am just a rank 1300er but I guess I do know enough not to expect to counter a tank destroyer with a tank and then cry about it because it blows up my tank.
If you knew the basics of tank combat you would at least have a 3 digit rank. Stop making balance threads.
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