Soviet infantry reworked

If RNG decided games there would be some random nobody in the SNF games today, instead of the ladder leaders

Oh so i take it you have seen all the games and you r not pulling stuff out of your ass or not ??

When there is a clear big difference in skill RNG plays a smaller role and that is the case with SNF especially untill R3 , after that in this snf it was mainly who got their hands on germans in the last game based on vps

Because a guard squad does 18.334 dps max while a penal battalion does 34.674 dps max. Penals are good AI and have an ability that can get squad kills.


*Those numbers aren't quite right I don't think because adding the flamethrower according to the stats page would lower the max dps. Does the stats page not account for criticals in dps numbers?

they are also a lot more survivable and their nades are great , so in the short run you can get enough out of guards its in the long run they will cost more munis , but possibly less mp too

The problem still remains whatever you use,be it Guards or Penals,Grens kill two members of a squad from two bursts,exception being at long range...which don't matter,because the DPS at long range is s**t for every unit(except snipers),thus when you reach medium-short range you have 3 or 4 members of the squad left...

Have you tried not walking directly towards them?

I haven't found that to be the case at all.

Have you tried not walking directly towards them?

I haven't found that to be the case at all.

They are a 240MP area denial unit now,nice...
Dude,seriously,you have to "walk towards them" eventually...

No, you got it backwards. They have to walk toward you because otherwise the Penals will win at long range. If you walk toward them, you're doing their job for them while also decreasing your own DPS.
People are using Penals wrong because the flamethrower and satchel charge give them the impression that they are short range units, which they are not.
They are long range units, best when shooting from cover and being merge-reinforced by conscripts.

If RNG decided games there would be some random nobody in the SNF games today, instead of the ladder leaders

Couple of days ago I cornered Ostwin (need another 2 AT gun rounds for kill) with squad of Cons and Rifles and Zis.

Oorah with cons on it and thew AT nade losing 3 models (no eng damage) and flanked with Guards. I was putting Zis in position and then came at it with Guards to button it. (lost 2 man on approach.

Ostwin buttoned down and At gun in medium range

Not so. My Zis missed Ostwin to the left, shooting barrel I was standing next to killing 2 of my vet 1 Guards and releasing Ostwin from button. Second shot from Zis missed again and Ostwin wiped out remaining 2 Guards as I was retreating and Ostwin was running away.

Now, I should have lost 3 Con models and 2 Guard models in exchange for Ostwin thanks to well played trap, instead i had Guards squad wiped, 3 con models killed and vetted up enemy Ostwin.

I won that game because my enemy wasn't that good, but vs someone better that would be huge mountain to climb back.

So RNG does decide games, sometimes in drastic fashion sometimes in series of little engagements. Not always against me, but I remember my misfortune better

No, you got it backwards. They have to walk toward you because otherwise the Penals will win at long range. If you walk toward them, you're doing their job for them while also decreasing your own DPS.
People are using Penals wrong because the flamethrower and satchel charge give them the impression that they are short range units, which they are not.
They are long range units, best when shooting from cover and being merge-reinforced by conscripts.

Fair enough, Penals have great long range DPS compared to other units. Problem being, it takes about 1 min of firing to kill single model @ long range, and no one is stupid enough to just sit there and wait 5 min for their squad to get wiped.

50% of the time walking over to Penals (or any unit for that matter) into nade range will result in 0 casualties...

It really comes down to how lucky you are, will you kill model or 2 or none at all..

Anyway fixing the soviet infantry is a rather simple matter like solving the t34/85s is as well and has been proposed many times in plenty of threads ,its just that relic has other priorities and thqat is reasonable since the game misses basic features ( for 2013 that is ) , those are the game lobby and the replay system ( the latter isnt missing but it is the bare minimum you can get )

*cough* observer mode *cough*

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what does people think of penal flame-thrower able to fire on the move?

what does people think of penal flame-thrower able to fire on the move?

so they can burn themself as they move up?

Fair enough, Penals have great long range DPS compared to other units. Problem being, it takes about 1 min of firing to kill single model @ long range, and no one is stupid enough to just sit there and wait 5 min for their squad to get wiped.

50% of the time walking over to Penals (or any unit for that matter) into nade range will result in 0 casualties...

It really comes down to how lucky you are, will you kill model or 2 or none at all..

Yeah, long range battles are kind of wonky because you either kill a few models pretty quickly or because one side may end up with a squad that hasn't lost any models but ist at 50% health. I think if the targeting of entities were a bit more consistent this wouldn't be as bad.

However, Penals can defend themselves from approaching infantry pretty well with their devastating Satchel throw.

what does people think of penal flame-thrower able to fire on the move?

I think that would certainly be possible but I do not completely understand what this would change. Of course this would make the flamer a bit better but I don't understand which of the Penal problems (low armor, long range rifles but short range ability and upgrade) this would fix.

Overall, I'd like to add to this suggestion to also change the movement burst modifier to 0.75 or 0.5 or something. This would mean their bursts would be shorter, on the one hand decreasing the flamer's DPS on the move but on the other hand also preventing the Penal from roasting itself (which their satchels are already doing enough of).

beta was weird, it was even more OP for Germans if you can believe it
choosing a doctrine with guards/shock troopers would actually make you unable to build penals, and replace the button at t1 with them

Oh so i take it you have seen all the games and you r not pulling stuff out of your ass or not ??

When there is a clear big difference in skill RNG plays a smaller role and that is the case with SNF especially untill R3 , after that in this snf it was mainly who got their hands on germans in the last game based on vps

yes I've seen most of the SNF games.
you can go ask any of the top16 who lost and no one will surely blame rng but their own strat/playing.
and soviets won plenty of games

yes I've seen most of the SNF games.
you can go ask any of the top16 who lost and no one will surely blame rng but their own strat/playing.
and soviets won plenty of games

alert the authors of oxford dictionary department , apparently 4 means plenty , also i highly doubt youve seen all of replays in a weekend. And just to clarify , there were 100 ++ games if we multiply that by 30 minutes each its 3000 minutes or 50 hrs of replay time at minimum !! even if you speed it up you will need at least 10hrs of replay watching . So bottomline stop pulling stuff out of your ass you havent seen most of snf games . And yes there were players in the top 16 who did loose in part due to rng in fact i ve heard one of them saying it .

So the fact that every person with a vp lead chose ostheer apparently means nothing to you.

is it realy just me ? but i have never ever seen guards own any infantry accept for engineers and those call in ost cheap troops

alert the authors of oxford dictionary department , apparently 4 means plenty , also i highly doubt youve seen all of replays in a weekend.

I've seen most of the games, on casts or replayed, R3 onwards.
some stats:

			Sov		Ger
DevM Vindi		XX		X
Andy OMG		XXX
Andy Barton		X 		X
Barton Jesulin 		X 		X
Andy General 		X 		X
Ivan Vindi 		X  		X
Devm urswine		X 		X
urswine jamin 		X 		X
devm fahu 		X 		X
cruzz sib 		X  		XX

I never said Ost aren't OP btw

is it realy just me ? but i have never ever seen guards own any infantry accept for engineers and those call in ost cheap troops

guards do beat vanilla grens, they also have the best nade in the game so if used well they can beat PGs and LMGrens