Re-balance Allied TDs penetration values

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 05:47 AMJilet

Just buffing the ATG penetrations while lowering TD penetrations is also a solution IMO. (Except panther since it “must” fight allied heavies and flamehrowing tanks with high armor values thus it needs a cost increase to 200. For my other suggestion see my page 1 post)

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 08:20 AMGrim

If you want ATGs to be relevant then we will need to change the walking stuka as that thing simply destroys support weapons.

I would much rather see the game focus about medium tank and ATG play as the main meat of armour play. With less focus on panthers and TDs.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 08:00 AMblvckdream

People pretend like not having 100% penetration at max range vs Panther will suddenly make Jackson and SU 85 bad. Meanwhile the Firefly doesn't have this penetration either and on top has horrible mobility and slow reload. In my proposal, Allied TDs would still have an almost guaranteed chance to penetrate Panthers. It doesn't serve to just make Axis better but to make the Firefly suck less in comparison to SU 85 and Jackson.

Tigers get penetrated so easily by Jacksons and SU 85 that the armour feels almost completely meaningless. This also applies to a lesser extend to KT and even Ele and JT.

Medium tanks are in a bad spot now, I agree with that. But the solution to that is to delay heavy tanks by giving them all 10 or 11 CP + build time. The KT is fine as it is due to tech cost and overall price but all the other heavies should be changed in that way.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 10:45 AMT.R. Stormjäger

In this case the Panther would have an armour and HP advantage over a TD, but the TD would have the accuracy advantage from range and would win unless the panther flanks and closes in.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 10:58 AMSander93

Tank destroyers already have the accuracy advantage over the Panther at medium and long range.
Quite significantly so in case of the Firefly and the SU-85.


Panther has 0.06/0.045/0.035 accuracy at ranges 0/25/50, and 24 target size.

SU-85 has 0.06/0.045/0.04 accuracy at ranges 0/30/60, and 18 target size;
Jackson has 0.05/0.045/0.035 at ranges 0/30/60, and 24 target size;
Firefly has 0.06/0.05/0.04 (0.066/0.055/0.044 with Tank Commander) accuracy at ranges 0/45/60 and 23 target size.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 11:03 AMT.R. Stormjäger

Might just be the combat distances then. With how short they are compared to real life it’s hard to simulate accuracy like in Steel Division 2 for instance.

Perhaps a good solution would be to divide hits into hits and critical hits, with TDs being more likely to score crits when they pen. You could then increase armour a bit. TDs would still fight off heavies, and armour would matter more.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 08:20 AMGrim

If you want ATGs to be relevant then we will need to change the walking stuka as that thing simply destroys support weapons.

I would much rather see the game focus about medium tank and ATG play as the main meat of armour play. With less focus on panthers and TDs.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 12:07 PMJilet

10/10 agreed but would want to see the same thing for Katyusha+Werfer while still retaining their anti blob power.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 12:11 PMLago

You could make AT guns require infantry to clear out pretty easily by giving their crews 50% explosive damage resistance.

The problem is rocket artillery actually is for clearing out late-game team weapon walls.

Try playing UKF into a heavy support weapon build and you'll see how much you need heavy indirect to clear them out.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 12:14 PMJilet

IMO rocket arty(especially) is more for anti blob purposes. You can use shell arty to clear out atgs and mgs but against blobs it is often useless compared to rocket artys fast response time.

Jump back to quoted post24 Oct 2019, 16:24 PMBlueKnight

Panther pretty much fights IS2 on equal terms and Panther is stock and so is KT. Churchill is less of a problem now as comet is finally an attractive choice so many Brit players pick Hammer tech.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 15:30 PMFelixTHM

By equal terms you mean a half-health IS2 vs a full-health Panther, right?

IS2 has more health and an insane armour advantage. At long range a Panther has less than 60% chance to pen, while IS2 is at 85%. A 41% chance to deflect vs a 15% chance to deflect puts them on "equal terms"? At virtually all ranges the IS2 will deflect shots about 2.5 times more often.

The Panther is great but the IS2 certainly dominates it in the head-to-head matchup. The "equal terms" engagement only arises when the IS2 is firing at infantry for the first 3 or 4 shots while the Panther plinks away at the IS2 for the first 15 to 20 seconds.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 15:33 PMthedarkarmadillo

or if by some statistical anomaly the panther is able to shoot at the is-2 without the is-2 being able to return fire somehow.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 08:00 AMblvckdream

People pretend like not having 100% penetration at max range vs Panther will suddenly make Jackson and SU 85 bad.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2019, 17:17 PMzerocoh

Sure, just nerf PaK and Raketens to not have 100% pen against everything allied have too.