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GCS Tournament Announcement

17 Mar 2017, 10:22 AM
#42
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



I don't think you understand how easy it is for good players to get high spots on the ladder in relatively few games. And why would you want to keep anybody out? You want the best players, and as many of them as possible. Comments like yours just trigger me, sorry.

Using the ladder is an interesting way to get people to play in automatch. I think it's a weird way to quali for a tourney, sinces ladder-ranks can be manipulated pretty easily, but I understand that it's a method of getting people to play ranked. I'm curious to see how that part works out.


The ladder is certainly an interesting way. I am also looking forward to see how it plays out. Yet you are a bit wrong about that being hard to get on high places in a relatively few games. Aimstrong was back for one day and he had his rank 4 brits back, the ranking system is a bit flawed in that respect.

The only point I am making is that yes we want the best players, but we also want the best players that actually regularly play this game and don´t just come back when there is some money to be made.
17 Mar 2017, 10:47 AM
#43
avatar of bulatcr

Posts: 142



The ladder is certainly an interesting way. I am also looking forward to see how it plays out. Yet you are a bit wrong about that being hard to get on high places in a relatively few games. Aimstrong was back for one day and he had his rank 4 brits back, the ranking system is a bit flawed in that respect.

The only point I am making is that yes we want the best players, but we also want the best players that actually regularly play this game and don´t just come back when there is some money to be made.


So there will be this "best players that actually regularly play this game". Their ranks are high enough to get into tourney, I mean they are in top32.
I don't understand why some people act like that towards devm and aimstrong. Like what will it change if they were active in this community or not? Same with active players, will there be any diffrence if they play this game often or show up only for tourney? Since relic doesn't really care and there are no support which community wants from devs I think there are no difference for you and for someone else. *cough* donniechan *cough*
A_E
17 Mar 2017, 12:59 PM
#44
avatar of A_E
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2017, 00:08 AMDevM


No offense to you either but that idea is stupid as hell. Why would the fact that a player only plays two factions be a reason for him not to enter the tourney, if that player thinks that gives better chances to win then let the player do it. Honestly everytime I hear people crying over me and aimstrong (not sure if this comment is towards me and him but Ill assume so) I can't help but think how low some people on this community sometimes are. A tourney is a place for high level play not the favorite streamers to win.


Yeah exactly this is about trying to make the ladder on coh2 a better reflection of skill level by making it more competitive not about punishing 'outsiders' or legends. You only need two factions to win a tourney you only need two factions to be ranked for this tourney.

I think this way is better and more pure than previous methods that were subjective and opinion based or relied on best of one qualis.

I have taken a gamble with this entry system but have a hunch it will pay off.
17 Mar 2017, 13:16 PM
#45
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Lol alright. :)
17 Mar 2017, 16:43 PM
#46
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3



Using the ladder is an interesting way to get people to play in automatch. I think it's a weird way to quali for a tourney, sinces ladder-ranks can be manipulated pretty easily,


Yup we need to take care of people who use a certain strategy to boost their ranks like our old comrade Zoobee :snfPeter:
17 Mar 2017, 17:56 PM
#47
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
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I appreciate the intention of spurring ladder activity, but I can also see very simple ways that this "qualification method" can be abused crazily.

Smaller open qualification tourneys (regional or global) are undoubtedly the best way to narrow the field of participants. Preliminary group stages are the best way to seed the main event. It all comes down to how much time and effort organizers are willing to put into the run-up. In smaller cases it may simply not be worth the effort.
A_E
17 Mar 2017, 18:00 PM
#48
avatar of A_E
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I appreciate the intention of spurring ladder activity, but I can also see very simple ways that this "qualification method" can be abused crazily.


Implying I would not have the balls to find out about, confront, and deal with such abuse ;P

Although to be honest my rule set was based on a £1,400 tournament not a £5,000 tournament

So let's see what happens over the next week and a half there may or may not be slight re-workings, but the core principles will remain the same.
17 Mar 2017, 18:04 PM
#49
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
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Just think big and plan for worst-case-scenarios.

Here's one.

Say two guys and their 30 friends decide to stack the ladders. These two guys play a dozen or so games on 15 of their friends accounts each. They go through the whole process... register, let the friends pretend to be participants, etc. Then on money day, the friends simply throw the games to the actual players. It would be a super easy no-brain way to block many legitimate players from getting in.
A_E
17 Mar 2017, 18:06 PM
#50
avatar of A_E
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Just think big and plan for worst-case-scenarios.

Here's one.

Say two guys and their 30 friends decide to stack the ladders. These two guys play a dozen or so games on 15 of their friends accounts. They go through the whole process... register, let the friends pretend to be participants, etc. Then on money day, the friends simply throw the games to the actual players. It would be a super easy no-brain way to block many legitimate players from getting in.


To be honest Ami, you along with Ipkai, and a few others are people's advice that I'd be keen to seek in an advisory capacity away from the public light.

It is true you could technically at great pain exploit things like that. However every entry to the tournament will be assessed for player validity, i.e. are they actually a known coh2 player on their prime account. I will draw up parameters for this assessment and there will be back end checks (thanks relic) to help.
17 Mar 2017, 20:51 PM
#51
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
Senior Referee Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Just think big and plan for worst-case-scenarios.

Here's one.

Say two guys and their 30 friends decide to stack the ladders. These two guys play a dozen or so games on 15 of their friends accounts each. They go through the whole process... register, let the friends pretend to be participants, etc. Then on money day, the friends simply throw the games to the actual players. It would be a super easy no-brain way to block many legitimate players from getting in.

Eeeeehm no offence, but i think we would notice if that would happen with low players and high ^^ it will almost impossible to do sometbing like this without us seeing it :)
18 Mar 2017, 13:07 PM
#52
avatar of Decepticus

Posts: 140

I see the ladder qualifications as a way to seed the 32 players, not just to select them. I'm sure the majority of the players will be known entities. Any new players will be scrutinized to make sure there was no foul play. Everybody will be looking at the ladders very closely in the weeks preceding the event and watching games in observer mode. I don't see how anyone can cheat the ladders under this scrutiny.

Also qualifications through ladders guarantee us continuous high level automatch play for months. This goes a long way into reviving the competitive scene and the game in general, as much as the event itself in my opinion. One week since the announcement, the list of automatch revenants includes DevM, Aimstrong, Barton, Talisman etc.

Just a noob's opinion.
18 Mar 2017, 13:24 PM
#53
avatar of Decepticus

Posts: 140

...each player that wants to participate should have a very high ladder rank with each faction?


If playing all factions isn't required to win the event, why should it be required to qualify?
18 Mar 2017, 14:29 PM
#54
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

@A_E Did you already announce the final time and place of the live final in case we go over the last strech goal? If not, when can we expect that kind of information?
A_E
18 Mar 2017, 15:36 PM
#55
avatar of A_E
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@A_E Did you already announce the final time and place of the live final in case we go over the last strech goal? If not, when can we expect that kind of information?


The reason I have no specifics on stuff like that right now is because I'm in talks with venues, sponsors and esports companies (who I'm very suspicious of and one thing I can guarantee to people the community aspect of the tournament will not be lost sight of, ever.)

Which you can appreciate takes time. Probably have something to announce by the end of next week, especially if we end up going my preferred route of do-it-yourself.
18 Mar 2017, 17:27 PM
#56
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2017, 15:36 PMA_E


The reason I have no specifics on stuff like that right now is because I'm in talks with venues, sponsors and esports companies (who I'm very suspicious of and one thing I can guarantee to people the community aspect of the tournament will not be lost sight of, ever.)

Which you can appreciate takes time. Probably have something to announce by the end of next week, especially if we end up going my preferred route of do-it-yourself.


Great, thank you :D just wanted an estimate :)
19 Mar 2017, 18:16 PM
#57
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
My few cents about DevM and Aimstrong, let thay play with soviets/brits and okw, lets ban for them USF/ostheer :snfPeter:.
Imo its will really tryhard game from them and its will be interesting to watch :snfPeter:.
Still thay are in top best players, but that fact that thay come here to win some money make me sad, so GG no respect :snfBarton:.
19 Mar 2017, 19:09 PM
#58
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3

Btw how does the hierarchy of the qualifiaction exactly work?

For example, someone who only plays 2 factions (1 axe, 1 allie faction) but is #1 with them is better than someone who is lets say #1 with 1 faction and top 5 with all 4 others???
19 Mar 2017, 20:49 PM
#59
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36

Btw how does the hierarchy of the qualifiaction exactly work?

For example, someone who only plays 2 factions (1 axe, 1 allie faction) but is #1 with them is better than someone who is lets say #1 with 1 faction and top 5 with all 4 others???


Yes you got that right

But is not better: He just get higher seeded
A_E
19 Mar 2017, 22:13 PM
#60
avatar of A_E
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Btw how does the hierarchy of the qualifiaction exactly work?

For example, someone who only plays 2 factions (1 axe, 1 allie faction) but is #1 with them is better than someone who is lets say #1 with 1 faction and top 5 with all 4 others???


That's right.

However there will be a slight refinement that I can't announce until entries go live, that will make things more mathematical and precise.
20 Mar 2017, 07:58 AM
#61
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
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Patrion 15

Posts: 16697 | Subs: 12

The spreadsheet/ladder scraper that I designed and Janne programmed can do it all. It can give you an average ladder ranking for all factions, or pick your best allies and best axis and drop the rest. It was refined over many tournies. We only ever used it for seeding advice tho, never as a quali method.

Good that you will be putting it to continued use, but I hope when you namedrop credit, you mention me as well as Janne.
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