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Thread: Fury Movie! Tiger vs Sherman3 Dec 2014, 17:42 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2014, 17:39 PMAffe Year German Losses Russian Losses Kill/Loss Ratio 1941 2,758......... 20,500........ 7.43 1942 2,648......... 15,000........ 5.66 1943 6,362......... 22,400........ 3.52 1944 6,434......... 16,900........ 2.63 1945 7,382......... 8,700......... 1.18 Total 25,584....... 83,500........ 3.26 http://www.alanhamby.com/losses.shtml German documents say only 25584 tank losses on the eastern front. No matter how you Count the soviet losses its still much less than the lost soviet tanks. Yes those documents are right, but the accounting of the losses was different, if you remember Kirosheev puts the irrecoverable soviet losses at 63000 and total losses at 83500. The 25000 german figure comes from tanks that are utterly destroyed and are unrepairable. That statistic is furtherly also meaningless, since most soviet tanks were lost to AT guns rather than tanks, and in 1941-42 due to abandonment and what not. It's interesting tho, in 1943 that was the year when the "super tanks" like the tiger I and panther stepped in, yet german losses during that year almost tripled. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Fury Movie! Tiger vs Sherman3 Dec 2014, 17:30 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2014, 17:24 PMAffe allied tank Crews also claimed to "kill" a tiger when they damaging them. But of course the allies WOULD NEVER DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. The allies were gentlemen they have always gone to the tiger Crew after a hit and asking them: "Erm sorry but is your tank destroyed?" and when the tiger Crew said "Yes" then the allies make a Party and celebrate. And also many of the "damaged" allied tanks were so heavily damaged that they never saw combat again because it took to much time to repair them and field them again until the end of war. Thing is, soviets claimed a kill when an enemy tank was damaged, and they also claimed a loss when their own tank was damaged. But really, who cares about what allies claimed to kill? It's important to look at the actual statistics made by the accounting of both millitaries, not kill claims. When it comes to kill claims, germans used their own method of counting losses and claimed to kill a tank even tho it was later repaired. You need to look at the statistics that are determined by the documents, and then make need to make them equal to one another since the method of accounting for losses are different, and then you can actually compare them. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Fury Movie! Tiger vs Sherman3 Dec 2014, 17:09 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2014, 16:59 PMAffe If you look at this side and the statistics: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwere_Panzer-Abteilung The kill/death Ratio gets even better in the Combat only section. Around 1700 Tigers were lost during WW2(Tiger I and Tiger II). -only 712 Tigers were destroyed by the Enemy. -654 Tigers were destroyed by there own Crews mostly because of fuel shortage at the end of the war. -214 Tigers were lost for other reason(Tiger Crews surrendered at the end of the war or simply panicking and abandoned there tank. Death/Kill Ratio in combat only is about 1:12 for Tiger. Death/Kill Ratio Overall is around 1:6,3. No matter how you see it with the allied tanks were claimed as a kill but could be repaired again. The Death/Kill Ratio of the Tigers were simply awesome. The Germans counted a kill when the enemy tanks were blown off/exploded after a hit and the Crew inside death. If you come with the Argument "But the Soviet/US/British tank could still be repaired and fight again..." well.........if you have enough time you could repair absolute almost everything that you want even the "irrecoverable lossed german tanks".It just makes no sense if the tank is so heavily damaged that the repair cost more time/ressources than to build a new one. Yeah, and all of those tigers were very likely to be knocked out or damaged by enemy fire multiple times, they were not counted as a loss, but allied tanks that were knocked out WERE. When comparing losses, you need to treat them equally. And usually a tank is not repairable , if you know, it falls into the hands of the enemy, and you don't want that to happen, so you must blow up the damaged tank so it can't be repaired by the enemy. Hence the many tigers that were blown up by their own crews. Most tanks do not blow off or explode after a hit, they get penetrated and the crew abandons them, later the tank can be recovered and repaired. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Fury Movie! Tiger vs Sherman3 Dec 2014, 16:15 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2014, 15:55 PMAffe You talk about the tank that had the best death/kill Ratio of all tank designs from WW2. About 1500 build tigers destroyed more than 10000 allied tanks. The Tiger was the most effective tank of WW2. T-34s and Shermans were death traps with terrible negative death/kill ratios compared to it. Germany also couldnt mass produce the panther because Germany is a smaller Country with almost no natural ressources it would have never had enough fuel or steel for 20000 or 30000 Panthers. More tanks = more steel = more fuel = more tank Crews. Aside from obvious innacuraccies when making kill claims theres something very obvious that the insane german shwerer panzer battalion kill rates are horribly skewed. Looking into it, it can be very easily explained. Simply put it - germans and soviets accounted for losses differently. A soviet tank ended up being destroyed even if it was inoperable for a very short period of tank e.g a tank stuck in the mud is already a loss, this lead to the same tank being lost multiple times over and over again until the tank was actually "destroyed", the same tank can also be "built" multiple times. This can easily be proven by this If you understand russian, then it should be very clear what this says. Even if you don't it should be fairly obvious. This shows the total amount of guns produced. Less than 20000 85mm guns were made in the entire war. Yet the soviets made over 22000 t-34/85s and 2000 SU-85s amongst other things. Keep in mind that tanks also should have some spare guns, because tank guns occasionally get broken and need to be replaced. Kirosheev puts the total soviet tank losses something around 83000 , yet "irrecoverable losses" are only 63000 tanks and SPGs. So putting the catasthrophic soviet losses at barbarossa, the soviets repaired 30% of the tanks they actually "lost". The germans on the other hand accounted for losses very differently. They considered a tank destroyed, if theres was absolutely zero chance to recover or repair it. So basically to make it clear lets look at a simple example. 3 tigers engage 10 t-34s. Result : 2 tigers heavily damaged but sent to factory back for repairs , 1 destroyed 3 t-34/76s destroyed, 7 heavily damaged and sent to factory for repairs Germans claim : 3 tigers engage soviet t-34s. 1 tiger is destroyed and 10 russian tanks are knocked out. Claimed Kill to death ratio 1 : 10 Actual kill to death ratio 3 : 10 The tiger was by far not the best tank design out of WW2. The tiger I and tiger II were horribly overcomplex machines that weren't actually produced in enough numbers to actually do anything significant. Even if their insane kill to death ratios were true, they don't mean anything because the soviets could simply always make more. The panther while a much better tank, with exellent combat characteristics like the tigers but also alot more cheap and fast was alot better but was also pretty bad because it's final drive did not work which led to panthers being horribly unreliable and most of the time panther was broken. For the best german AFV, the award definately has to go the the humble STUG, and a honorable mention to the PIV. Oh and btw, the 76mm sherman could easily penetrate the front of the tiger In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Shreks need long range accuracy nerf2 Dec 2014, 15:55 PM So guys, we keep saying nerfing the shrecks accuracy is not an option, because it would nerf PGs even more, even if that is not even needed. But hey, it's not like we could specifically nerf the accuracy on the VOLKSGRENADIER panzershreck and the panzergrenadier panzershreck would be left intact. After all, doesn't it make sense that highly trained elite panzergrenadiers can fire their panzershreck with higher precision than some puny volksgrenadiers, no? As it stands now, the ridiciluos veterancy bonus for volksgrenadiers also apply to the panzershreck, making it almost 100% accurate. Nerfing the insane volksgrenadier blobs that happen could be solved in alot of ways - Nerf volksgrenadier shrecks accuracy Nerf volksgrenadier veterancy bonuses Nerf the rate at which shrecked volksgrenadiers get veterancy Give the panzershreck to sturmpioneers And of course, it's not like the shreck can be nerfed and OKW just left alone. The raketenwerfer as an at gun is underperforming just as hard as volksgrenadiers with panzershrecks are overperforming, so that's something to keep in mind. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The spam, it's getting unbearable 2 Dec 2014, 15:45 PM Yes, OKW do have one real option = volks spam and then blob the infantry of your choice. Except they can blob alot of things they can blob panzerfusiliers, obers, falls not really (but falls can still be used), they can also supplement their volks with a kubel or a flak HT early on, then perhaps get a puma. You can spam mg 34s and lock the area down and vigoriously camp your medic truck and your flak HQ, or you can be more aggresive and blob obersoldaten en masse, or something between the two. In the early game you can make the decision whether to abuse truck pushing or not, on some maps you can even choose to lock down the entire map with the truck by sacrificing it. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Ostheer Teching: Inefficient vs USF?1 Dec 2014, 15:37 PM Problem is that making ostheer tech cheaper would fuck up the soviet vs ostheer, while only balance out USF. I say the maps and the USF teching needs to be adjusted. Something is seriously out of wack when comparing the old factions to the new ones, i mean old factions barely get anything for teching, while both USF and OKW get huge advantages for teching. They also have simmilary out of wack infantry units that just destroy all the other factions infantry. Compare PGs and Airborne (both of which cost around the same while PG being slightly more expensive) to maintain Gaurds and Obersoldaten (Obers being just 70mp more expensive but gaurds requiring 75 muni upgrade) Compare these infantry units and how the WFA faction elite infantry just smash the old factions elite infantry without any doubt. Something is wrong here IMO. Theres alot of WFA faction stuff that needs to be nerfed to eastern front faction level IMO. Or the other way around, i'm not sure. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Guard30 Nov 2014, 19:46 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2014, 19:43 PMNinjaWJ They should come just with rifles and have the ability to upgrade to DP or PTRS. Paying muni to remove a weapon is so funny Well, the upgrade to remove PTRS would overall be a considerable 1/3 DPS buff to gaurds. So really good. And giving upgrade to PTRS or DP-28s would result in everyone just spamming DP-28s because PTRS is goddamm useless. It would be a major downgrade. An upgrade that removes the PTRS does both, still keep the PTRS seen occasionally and not completely extinct. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Guard30 Nov 2014, 19:20 PM Give them an upgrade to remove the PTRS for 50 munitions. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: $1000 1v1 Questions & Answers30 Nov 2014, 15:12 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2014, 14:51 PMAmiPolizeiFunk We are aware of this exploit and we will give you our final decision shortly before tourney time. Here's to hoping it gets fixed before kick-off. Patch before december 15th confirmed In: $1000 1v1 Tourney