Despite all that, the is2 in game has a 6 second reload weak damage. Compared to the 30 second reload it had in real life, and large explosive capabilities. 9 second reload 240 damage anyone?
Problem with this is that it would make the IS-2 incredibly RNG tastic |
We'll agree to disagree about Paks. Yes, they are the best of the AT guns in the game, but then again, IS-2 is the most survivable tank, and they can't chase you down.
As for Shock Rifle and OKW, nothing spells massacre like a Shock Flank on a forward heal truck. KV-8 burning down SHQ in what, 10 seconds flat? No Panther for you while the IS-2 eats you alive. Not to mention it operates in a largely snare-free environment which makes getting wipes so much easier and enhances survivability so much. Also, I like to cultivate my inner hipster. Guard Motor gets boring eventually.
All this kv-8 stuff doesnt matter when you can just get 4 conscripts, spam sandbags everywhere and then hide with your guards behind cover. If the OKW player loses 1 single engagement, he instantly loses the entire game because conscripts sandbag the entire map and 1 guard squad can almost deal with 3 volksgrenadiers if they are behind sandbags. Only OKW choice is to get a flak HT, since thats the only way they can dislodge troops from green cover, but if you make 1 small mistake and it gets at naded you instantly lose the game.
Anyways, im going off topic here, sorry  |
I dont see how a Pak40 with TWP totally "owns" an IS-2? You stun him, might damage him, then what? He reverses back out. Both sides collect their vet, rep, on to next engagement. Unless OH has a Panther, its not like it can follow up on that. I am not the best player in the world, but in the top 200 environment, I've rarely if ever lost an IS-2 to Paks unless I got really stupid. Not to mention that you need vet 1 in the first place. True about the Stuka, but I acknowledged that before if you read my previous post.
And I really don't understand your fondness for the P IV for the life of me. Against IS-2 play that thing is largely dead weight, (and in fact its even more questionable against 85s, since it goes down in a heartbeat with mark target, plus they are fast enough to chase it down) maybe still good for counterharassment where the IS-2/ZiS combo is not, but if you are looking for an AI tank, the Tiger is by a long shot the better choice, its also far easier to keep alive. Sure, PIV builds occasionally works to punish excessive T1+Guards into call-ins cheese, but apart from that, I really see no role for it vs Soviets.
As for Guard Motor vs Shock Rifle, I play both, on urban maps I feel Shock Rifle synergises much better, plus against OKW the KV-8 can be extremely nice to have.
Double PaKs have very significant firepower and they can do alot of damage to the IS-2, if they are both vet 1 and it gets stunlocked, then it is completely dead meat. Even 1 stun will significantly damage an IS-2 and with some lucky RNG it can even kill it. Hell, it's not like you can't make more than 2 PaKs.
And then the lategame combo of LMG grens + tiger can come in and much more easily force away the ZIS-3 guns due to riflenades + tiger being more accurate againts infantry.
And yes, the PIV is bad vs gaurd motor, but it's alright againts the IS-2. Tiger is of course better.
And about OKW, sorry but going shocks vs OKW is just a bad idea. Why get shocks if guards are essentially a free win vs OKW |
Sic. Ahem.
Yes quite frankly, you of all people accusing others of being fanboys is fairly rich, you know. Pot, Kettle and stuff. Be that as it may:
1: You don't play the game much, and it kinda shows. Want an example? IS2/ZiS vs Tiger/Pak might come down to RNG in the sterile theorycrafter environment, whereas in reality, Soviets have ceteris paribus more pushing power even in the lategame and will just drop flamearty on the Paks, flank them with Shocks, etc, just have more varied and more effective tools to take down OH support than vice versa. If you spend a tenth of the time you devote to harrasing people on those forums to actually play, you'd know that. In the competitive Arena, the guy with faction choice goes Soviets...
2. Even if your points had more substance and would actually reflect the way this game tends to pan out in the contemporary meta, even if you were the goddamn second coming of Jesulin, your behaviour towards others would still be inacceptable. Quit being a dick 24/7. If you treated others in a real conversation the way you treat them here, sooner or later you'd be mighty lonely. If you think somebody cannot be convinced for whatever reason, just ignore them. I mean, do you seriously think "making fun out of (alleged) idiots" serves any other purpose than making you feel grand about yourself?
There isin't any theory crafting really here. Pak 40 with target weakpoint will completely own an IS-2. With incendiary barrage they might be able to force your paks to reposition, twice, thrice or whatever, but the IS-2 will very rarely be able to follow up since it will miss most of its shots and it only takes 1 missed shot for the PaKs to turn around and stun your IS-2. With stuka CAS it's not even a fight. You really don't even need the tiger to deal with IS-2s. PIVs + PAK-40s with target weak point is enough, although harder. Of course this is not the case if the ostheer player is significantly behind in mapcontrol, which is quite easy to do as soviets on most maps, meaning that the soviet player can just pump out 2 IS-2s for your 1 tiger and just stomp you.
And yes, the guy with the faction choice will pick soviets because literally of all the reasons except the IS-2. Gaurd motor with t-34/85s and mark target + guards + 120mm is way better than any IS-2. T-34/85s have significantly more anti infantry firepower, are more mobile, and with mark target + flanking power more anti tank firepower as well. Guards are also better than shocks except on the most close range favoured maps. 120mm is honestly better than the incendiary barrage etc etc.
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If you don't believe me here are the stats:
IS2:
Name:
D25t 122mm IS2 gun
File name:
is2_d25t_122mm_mp.xml
Nation:
soviet
Penetration:
250.0/220.0/190.0
Scatter angle:
7.5
Scatter distance:
5.7
AoE radius:
4.0
AoE far:
3.0
AoE mid:
2.0
AoE near:
1.0
Tiger:
Name:
Kwk 36 88mm Tank Gun (Tiger)
File name:
tiger_kwk36_88mm_mp.xml
Nation:
ostheer
Penetration:
220.0/200.0/180.0
Scatter angle:
7.5
Scatter distance:
4.3
AoE radius:
3.5
AoE far:
2.625
AoE mid:
1.75
AoE near:
1.0
4.3 vs 5.7 scatter is a BIG difference. Not a small one. |
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Lol at this thread and lol at alex saying that IS-2 is better againts infantry with his complete inability to understand anything. |
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PROTIP : You can now shoot the democharges and destroy them that way. |
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Honestly, the NDA is not really a bad thing. Relic tests alot of changes, and alot of things are changed quite drastically in the tests.
I'd imagine people going absolutely bonkers on the forums and flinging shit at the devs (except alot harder this time) just because some of the proposed changes aren't exactly well though out. |
The problem with the German penetration data is not that it's at 0 degrees, but that it's measured in 5 out of 5 hits need to penetrate. Assuming the German penetration criterium was 50%(I have never seen this proven) this would do a 97% chance of penetrating. Besides, the IS 2s armour was oftentimes not excellent at all.
And the notion that 'A 0° hit on a sloped surface is extremely unlikely' is simply an unfounded assumption.
I dunno, but looking at the relative sizes of the mantlets, it seems very unlikely for a round to hit them to be able to do any significant damage at all. |
Obers could be cheaper to build or reinforce, but if you do so, you need to rework their veterancy. Specially vet4 supression.
IB4 defensive stance (or should i called it offensive stance).
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Falls pays a "tax" in order to be able to call them from ambient building. I do believe they are cheaper.
Falls combat wise are scaled to around ~385 mp performance. |
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