Because player should not be punished for opponent playing stupidly and not building proper counter units.
Should your tanks armor drop to 10 when opponent does not have any AT and you got 4 of them?
Should your units suddenly get weaker or more expensive, because opponent is in denial about green cover, high ground and HMGs?
A large part of this discussion revolves around blobs owning everything DESPITE using counter units, high ground, etc... |
It was stupid idea in CoH2 when it was suggested, its still stupid idea now.
why is it stupid ? |
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Why not just make any additional squads of a certain type beyond a certain number cost more, ie: after 4 infantry squads, the 5th costs 20mp more, then 30, etc... |
Ok I take back the cover comment.
I would suggest a different perception of them. When you see a Guastatori squad, they're like 2 flamesapper squads, but are more dangerous as they come later (2 vs 0) and have higher reinforce cost(40 vs 22). Still 440MP vs 2x220=440MP and 90FU vs 2x50=100FU for the flamers. 8 men unarmoured vs 6 men with 1.25 armour. Now I don't think you'd want to keep inf near two flamer squads unless you seriously outnumbered them with inf with proper anti-inf firepower. Or a lot of long range firepower like LMGs etc. I come across a lot of ppl who see one squad and then think they can go toe-to-toe with them, when they'd usually soft retreat vs 2 flamers.
AT satchel range is maybe 5 or 6? Kinda deserve them landing if you get that close with a vehicle. Only available from vet 1 too.
It's prob easier for ppl who fought against shocktroops a lot in COH2, as they are familiar with this kind of matchup, minus flamers but with more durable men.
Of course, problems arise vs experienced users who know how to maximise the smoke and atk-ground, but that's a story for another day.
Yes, this is true. I think what I was really surprised by are the flames; which, when combined with the armour, make them very dangerous. Not knowing the numbers off-hand, it seems like flames do more damage in this game. I have learned many lessons so far, some of them are what you describe- don't go toe to toe, 2xMG, sniper, mines... lessons that were abundant in CoH2, but became apparent extremely early in this game, with this unit. |
There's your problem. Are you sure they weren't out-blobbing you? There's not much a single unsupported MG can do against three guastatori in the face. Same thing with riflemen. If they have the numbers advantage, carnage is to be expected.
If you want to take the high road, always use two MGs together to suppress infantry blobs. If not, then you need to blob back lol. US riflemen blob gets free suppressive fire ability at vet 1, so they'll stomp guastatori if you tech grenades too. Not much they can do but tank the nades or retreat under threat of losing too much manpower.
good point. yes, this typically would happen with 1-3 gus squads. |
I can't speak for Bersaglieri, they seemed alright combat wise to me in my very limited use of them. Lack of a snare (or even threat of a snare) put me off them a lot. But I'm a big believer in the scaling power of Panzergrens.
Guastatori well, they do indeed give pioneers a good name. However in 20+ games of them I've not had one post-nerf where they've felt invincible, esp since Allied mainlines will have a bit of a vet advantage due to 2CP timing. Getting models picked off is to be expected, making you pick your fights carefully. The usual Britblob contains AT boys who make your armour feel nonexistent. Obviously if an Allied player 1v1 Guastatori then they'll get stomped and they should since Guastatori have 440MP, 40MP reinforce cost.
Not sure why you seem to think cover works against flamethrowers? If anything you take more damage because your men are all bunched up together tightly and flamers ignore cover. Historically they even do bonus damage to garrisons.
I do see a lot of ppl dive vehicles onto vet I of them, but that's your own fault for what comes next (AT satchel).
Absolutely. Yes, flames maximize against cover. I know this, but what I'm saying is, it doesn't seem to matter what the circumstances are, these guys are beasts; my opinion seems at least somewhat supported by the fact that they are an overwhelmingly popular unit in team games. Not to mention- flames, body armour, AT satchels, what ? |
Because you try to fighting them in negative cover, with engineers, at max range.
They lose to 60mp cheaper rifles, badly.
Have we played against each other ? Yes, I have tried engineers, infantry, MGs...at max range, CQC range, behind cover and out of cover. I stand by what I said. |
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against USF. firing out of cover, absolutely decimating any and all units with flamethrowers, while taking very little damage from units firing from cover. |
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why do these troops seem to be invincible while dishing out massive damage ? |
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I, for one, am very impressed with the new game. The maps are gorgeous. I love that you can hear the sound of the gravel when a vehicle passes over it. Here are my likes:
Vehicle weaponry sounds like it has more punch
Beautiful maps
Troops hopping fences, etc...without specifically being told to
Way more options for unit customization via training options and commanders
Allies finally feel like they have a chance due to aforementioned upgrades
FINALLY the option to mute chat ! no more toxic troll comments !
Also love that you don't need to dedicate engineers to build base buildings
Requests/ questions:
How to face MGs when garrisoned ? I know they will autoface, but does that mean you cant manually face them ?
When grouping units, it seems as if when a unit has been previously grouped it will stay with that group ? eg: engineers in group one with some infantry. reconfigure group to only hold infantry. engineers still seem to follow that group around.
dropped weapons, no longer display name when mousing over ?
unfinished mines. used to display a construction icon to make it easier to click on to resume work, but now do not. slightly more difficult to click on unfinished mines in order to finish them
Anyway, bang up job so far !
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Canada
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
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VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
