there are multiple reasons why the timing in this game is so uninterrupted compared to say, dow2. personally, i would not only like for more infantry/support weapon/very light vehicle play but also more play with light/medium tanks, particularly in team games which i play.
anyway, analysis. coh2 teching is really fast for a couple of reasons.
one, vehicles and tech are the only thing that fuel is used for. since there are a limited number of vehicles early game and those that are available tend to be fairly cheap it means that teching is going to happen sooner rather than later and that, for those factions with early vehicles choices, the construction of light vehicles may result in a 1 or 2 minute delay in teching; nothing major.
two, most factions have a small number of tech levels. OKH is 4+1 (5) but generally only builds 3 (+1). the soviets are also 4+1 (5) but also generally build only 3. the difference between OKH and USSR is that OKH branches at the top while USSR branches at the bottom. UKF is basically 2 (+1+0.5+0.5). as a result UKF tends to tech pretty fast. USF and OKW have a similar structure in that they are 3+1 (4) and both have a choice at the bottom of the tree. effectively, they have 2 (+1) tech levels. like the brits, they tech fast.
all of the above tech splitting is done for the sake of "diversity" but the result is an artificial limitation that removes core features from the faction. it's like a car with a list of features (mirrors, power steering, head lights, heating, locking doors) and you're told "pick 3 of 5" based upon your situation and personal preference.
dow2 had linear tech for all factions, with all of the base units available in a given game, but players never purchased each of those units because it didn't make sense to. the system of counters is a lot harder than in coh2, and there are more unit types, and squad loses are much more devastating, so players picked what complimented their play style and/or countered their opponent's. what limited tech not artificial but rather a product of having more choice than buying power in a single game. the tech being linear didn't detract from the overall game and the variety of units meant that a player generally had some kind of counter (with a few notable exceptions).
additionally, power used to tech and buy vehicles, like coh2, but also for upgrades and the more powerful base units. this meant that buying a lot of t1.5 units would delay your t2 timing, leaving you more vulnerable to a vehicle rush, but was worth it if you could keep the enemy delayed as well. another important factor was that tech power costs were very high, making the transition timing an important decision and delaying a unit purchase.
tl;dr: dow2 is better designed because THQ wasn't going backrupt.
the only way to fix the current rapid tech and limited units is by redesigning the tech for all factions and/or adding more units so that there are more units for each timing window, the windows are longer, and there is always a counter available.
pls don't use OKH to refer to Ostheer/Wehrmacht.
No sense to it. Just confusing at first. |
As a Soviet player, I typically get two, even three Maxims. Two infantry squads (conscripts, maybe a shock squad if shock rifle frontline). Alternatively, you can get 2 Guards + 1 conscript.
After that, you'll either need an AT gun/T3 T70 or T3 and SU76.
If your mate goes with only 2 maxims, M5 w/ Quad .50 might be necessary for added suppression. Or you can get SU76 + M5 Quad for a healthy balance.
The issue is when you need AT. If you're fighting double OKW you may need SU76/early ZiS 3 to counter Luchs. Or, you may not need them if they went with ISGs to try to counter your maxims.
In the late game, soviet player can get IS2 (Shock Rifle/Armored Assault) or T34/85s (Advanced Warfare/Armored Assault).
There's an art to using maxims. gotta avoid the deathloop.
For USF builds, the strongest build at the moment is 3-4 rifles, captain, stuart, M5 Quad .50 cal, then calliopes. Usually you'll have fuel to spend between stuart/M5 and CPs for Calliope, so you can do a few things:
1) If you're winning, a second Stuart will help press your advantage
2) If you're high on your CPs for some reason, but a little low on fuel, you can get two Anti-Tank guns.
3) Major, 1-2 Jackson
4) Back tech to LT (usually if you only have 3 riflemen; 4 rifles + LT is too much) then get M20 to plant mines.
Also get M1919s on your rifles. Double M1919s will make you win almost every engagement 1v1 with your rifles.
Other good commanders are Pershing/Infantry. Pershing because it has mines/sandbags, Infantry because it has mines/sandbags and M1919. But it has no M5 Quad so you won't have that mobile, 360 degree suppression.
Encourage your soviet buddy to put mines everywhere: on roads, on paths that infantry have to squeeze through (break in a fence) in doorways. Trip wire flare mines, too. Try combining a TM35 w/ a demo.
Better yet, try combining a demo with an M20 mine to kill almost any axis vehicle.
If you go for a LT build with Sherman, you've got only light AT. If OKW rushes out a panther, that could be difficult or impossible for you to counter. Not having an AT gun can be a big issue. |
Wow this thread is pretty cancerous. |
veterancy is stupid, nothing but flares and capping points with vehicles.
...veterancy is a core mechanic of the game. |
I miss the good 'ol days... https://youtu.be/1sGNYH0vQyc?t=7m15s
Edit: better display of old flamers https://youtu.be/1sGNYH0vQyc?t=13m39s
But yeah, I agree, flamers and flames in general should do more building damage. |
As those of us who play all five coh2 factions know, veterancy works the same way for every faction and for every unit. Your unit does or takes damage, it gets veterancy. It kills models or tanks, it gets veterancy, etc.
Those of us that played coh1 know that the veterancy systems were different from each faction.
For those that don't know...
Veterancy was only added when a model or tank was killed, not damage.
U.S. faction had more or less the current vet system
Wehrmacht had purchasable veterancy
PE had veterancy like U.S., but values were shared to nearby units and options were given to the player
Brits had veterancy attached only to officers.
So, anyway, I see a lot of talk about purchasable veterancy and how people miss it.
Why is that?
While it made sense historically, to bring in veteran/crack/elite troops from the Eastern Front, it seems, from a gameplay perspective, that this system does not aid in unit preservation and instead forces players to choose between new units/tech and veterancy bonuses. Why do some people want this/think it's a good system?
Do people think the PE system of veterancy was/would be a good model to use in the future? It was cool to get vet on non-combat units like kettenkrad.
The British vet system seemed a bit silly as well. Veterancy adds another dynamic level to unit preservation that builds on the limited resources/weapon upgrades that promote unit preservation.
In general, though, it seems silly to drastically change things that aren't broken. But why do some people do want to change the veterancy systems for some or all factions? |
When is Cynthia coming back to coh2 and becoming a Bear?  |
I think the maxim is doing what its suppose to be doing, a suppression platform with some nice dps and good setup time. The MG42 can suppress in a huge arc, and can load incendiary rounds to really burst people down.
Nobody wants the old Maxim that was a piece of garbage while the MG42 has always been great.
If anything you need to look at the durability of a maxim, 6 man crews I think is a bit excessive. Brits, OKW, USF and OST all have 4 man crews on their MG's so why is the maxim a 6 man? I'd drop it to 5 or even 4 and see how this is. It's the durability that gets me, 2-3 rifle nades and this thing just keeps firing away and pinning all your squads. 75 Munitions should be enough to decrew this bad boy and yet it is not.
Old Maxim? One of the reasons it wasn't so great was because of vet 2 grenadier rifle nade range. Rifle nade could be fired from beyond sight/maxim range, which in itself isn't necessarily bad, but the fact that models tend to stack up, it led to the vetted maxim squad being wiped instantly with a 30 muni ability.
maxim has always been able to beat MG42 1v1. Maxim wasn't terrible but it's certainly in a better spot now.
The reason why soviets have so many men in their squads is to reflect the vast amount of manpower that the soviets had throughout the war.
Perhaps you should rely less on rifle nades and more on various other tools for wiping maxims, eh? |
Is getting 4-6 maxims more viable than 2-3 w/ 1-2 cons + shocks? I usually do the latter but... six maxims? That sounds glorious in a 1v1.
Anyway, I enjoy using a few maxims in 1v1. It makes me feel like the British in Africa in the 1890s/1900s or von Lettow-Vorbeck in East Africa setting up Machine Guns in depth, then bringing one 'round the side to pour enfilading fire down into those savage- I mean Nazis. Then a T70/ZSU, then three SU76s and wait for IS2.
Fucking great m8. Choccy can attest to this. Do you still remember our game on Minsk, Choccy? nearly a month and a half ago I reckon. Great times. |
If this is actually intended, it's the worst implementation of the feature that could possibly be done.
You've got a pop counter, which is the hard cap for every single team in the game, including USF. However, IF the USF player gets out of the vehicle, it lowers the pop-count (not explained anywhere in-game), allowing for more units to be made. It's then possible to get back into the vehicle, exceeding the pop-cap (also not explained in-game), resulting in the UI for the pop-cap to turn RED (i.e. bad), as well as display a value over 100%. All of this is without any consequence (which the red UI would suggest).
If this was actually intended, it would be explained either in a tutorial or via the UI, and the pop-cap wouldn't simply turn red. Further more, there would be some downside for exceeding the pop cap, as a trade-off of being able to exceed it in the first place.
No, my bet is that the feature was added, and this was an unintended consequence to which they don't really have a good solution to.
USF crews are intended designs in the game. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there is no multiplayer tutorial for USF. Maybe, by some slim chance, there's some info in Ardennes Assault, but other than explaining the basic mechanics of the game, there are no tutorials for each faction, unfortunately. That's something that you've just got to deal with.
There is a consequence when you go over popcap. For every 1 popcap, you lose 1.5 manpower, I believe. If you're at 150 popcap (god forbid), your mp income is 75. Those numbers could be wrong, but the mp income relative to popcap stays the same no matter what popcap you're at. It's a linear equation. m=-1.5p + 300.
Leave it, but implement a MP and Fuel penalty for every 10 over the pop cap. It is just dumb when they can consistently reinforce 8 squads of RE while having 8 M10s on the field and fuel for replacements at the ready in a few minutes.
There's a mp penalty, as explained above.
If it's dumb that your opponent can replace tanks rapidly and reinforce squads, you've done something wrong. You've lost. You've been outplayed.
Sure, it might seem easier, the game may go on longer if your opponent was at 120 popcap, but they had the resources to spend on that shit and they're maintaining enough mp to keep that shit on the field and deny you the ability to recapture territory. You. Have. Lost.
In 4s, it's definitely a different story.
With Calliopes/Priests, it's possible to just popcap abuse. I do that but only if I have a solid fighting force first. I have 2 jacksons, LMG rifles, maybe an AT gun. If your opponent has 12 calliopes and a couple of fresh rifles, they're not a good player or you and your team suck enough that your opponent can have no frontline armor or infantry and still kick your ass.  |