You're goooooood. I checked and You guys are right and I stand corrected - thx. It is better bren handling, not piats. But to the original post - they are very similar with piats to the feared shrecked pzgrens.
No, they are not.
Not even close.
Try the same against front armor and you'll know why. |
i counter you anything easily which can ost nodoc field with ptrs penals, mg and SU85.
satchel prevent any div in and mg deny pgrens and 60 range td wait for an attack...since su has more view range than shot range...it can easily provide nice recon
I guess you just alt+F4 when opponent gets combination of AI and AT units, because now regardless of what you do, its all hardcountered. |
Honestly, I used to love using Elite Troops doctrine; but Grens simply don't have the pop they used to have.
With IS getting a significant buff
They literally are 5% more durable out of cover and can hit something on the move now, that's anything but significant.
Riflemen getting a mid range buff, and Soviets getting 7-Man, and Ostruppen being 200, there really isn't a real reason to use Grens.
A buff at range rifles were already roflstomping grens, grens were always roflstomping cons, now they are equals and only in late game.
I wouldn't mind seeing stock Grens getting 5, costing 260, and Veteran Grens have a 6 man upgrade.
Allied Bois would lose their minds though.
No need to lose minds over impossible dreams, games from imaginationland do not carry over to live well 
If you insist a mainline infantry to be a 4 man squad, if they are squishy, they have to be lethal. Fallschirmjagers are a 4 man squad; but they have access to FG-42's.
Why do you think ost got best and earlierst support weapons and very early game reinforcement haltruck?
If you want to spam basic infantry, you are playing wrong faction. |
The SU-76 once has decent TTK vs mediums especially once vetted and a significant range advantage while being cheaper than stug and fighting the more expensive PzIV.
SU-85 has better TTK both at vet0 or vet3 and that's with generous assumption that all of 76s shots pen.
SU-76 in vacuum is ok, but it has no place against meds when you can get 85 instead and not worry about heavies too. SU-76 is atm is a panic button and you really need to be ears deep in shit to get it. |
Well if people insist on those buffs, StugG should get atleast 60 range
:kappa:
That's not how it works. |
Then what's the SU-76 supposed to be? Because it certainly wouldn't be a light-TD with those buffs.
The counter to med tanks with a barrage.
The T-70 has 40 range - it needs to get in range of STUGs and even P4s to do anything. The SU-76 has 10 to 20 more range than either of those tanks.
I'm sure you'll see all these infantry crushing SU-76 on the front lines, even closer to the action then T-70, vipper said so, so it must be true, he can't be wrong and its a fact.
You need to consider all game modes. While this is true in 1v1 and 2v2, consider muni-cache spammed 4v4s.
Everything is OP in 4v4, when massed, that is not an argument.
Plus, you'd have to destroy all the fuel caches first to be able to build muni ones.
Again; team games. Zis-3 barrage spamming can actually be quite effective in larger games, especially if its well coordinated.
So why its not being done?
Everything looks good on paper.
No, but making the SU-76 an OST hard-counter isn't the solution.
It also isn't going to be a problem, unless you never go beyond P4.
It takes 8 shots to kill panther, 7 when vetted, 14-15 taking armor into account.
If you need to shoot at something 16 times and its not infantry squad vs other infantry squad, you don't exactly look at "hard" counter. |
Firstly; nice video. It covers all the points well, and is just well made. Great work.
Secondly; no to all. This will brick OST and turn the STUG-G, which is already pretty underwhelming, into an absolute joke. Let's compare the current stug to the proposed 'buffed' SU-76.
SU-76
280mp, 75f, 8 pop
400mp, 75/35 armor, 20 size
6.8 or 6.9 speed, 2.3/4.4 acc/deacc, 36 or 38 rotation
120dmg, 160 far pen, 4.9-5.4 reload, 60 range
STUG-G
280mp, 90f, 10 pop
560hp, 140/70 armor, 17 size
6 speed, 2.1 accel, 28 rotation
160dmg, 170 far pen, 4.5-5.5 reload, 50 range
So; for 15 less fuel and 2 less pop, you get a unit that would be untouchable by the more expensive STUG; it would accelerate much faster, has a much higher top speed, and turns faster, while also having 10 more range and a 100% chance to pen it at max range.
StuG is not supposed to go against SU-76.
Its med tank counter.
That would be 'fine', but it also pushes the speed above every other OST unit. P4 dives? The P4's top speed is 6.3 with 2.1 acceleration; it also wouldn't be able to actually catch it. Even the panther's 6.6 speed and 2.4 acceleration wouldn't be able to catch it.
T-70 speed is 6.9.
Its not invincible to meds thanks to it.
Now, you might say that this is OK, since it would still be very squishy. That would be fine, but you're also pushing it more into the "support artillery" role. At 80 range, the SU-76 out-ranges any and all AT OST has to offer, except the Elefant. But now its going to be barraging every 30 seconds (in teamgames, you'd have the res) - which would be incredibly powerful against the largely static OST units (MG42, Pak40, LMG Grens, etc.).
Barrage cost hefty amount of muni.
Soviets are overbloated with abilities that cost hefty amount of muni.
If you'll see a lot of this glorified mortar barrage, you will not encounter mines, offmaps or sprinting cons throwing stuff.
Additionally, it'll be doing those constant barrages while being immune to counter-barrages. In your video, you brought up that the Zis-3's cooldown is 30sec vs. 80 on the SU-76; the reason for this because the Zis-3 is vulnerable to counter arty. While it can fire more often, it can be quickly decrewed. However, a barraging SU-76 isn't at risk from mortars, LeFHs or even PWerfers.
Could you guess why ZiS-3 doesn't do constant barrages despite 30 sec cd?
It might have something to do with previous point. In case you haven't used SU-76 for last 2 years, its barrage costs quite a bit of muni now, this is specifically why that short SU-76 spam meta died.
So, essentially, you're suggesting making the SU-76 an early-game TD that's faster than every stock AT solution OST has, while also being incredibly cheap. Then rounding out its late-game squishy nature by giving it an incredible secondary role.
Would you prefer to see T-70 in every singular soviet game until the death of multiplayer? |
Fast unit with rotation above 32 are extremely good at crushing infatry.
Crushing infatry should simply be removed from this unit.
Because its impossible to remove infantry crush if its an issue.
This is why T-70 can still crush infantry.
Oh wait. |
I mean..comon. the Piat is a big gun. At this point you equip them..you cannot sneak around like commandos it do.
If storms can do it with much larger shreck...
Partisans also do not seem to struggle. |
That's totally true, it doesn't mean that it's okay
And it doesn't matter, because its impossible to change it.
We've had this discussion already with P-47 rocket loiter. |
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