Agreed. The significant disparity between friendly fire values has never made sense to me. They've always seemed like an error than intentional.
Well I just got a list of weapons so we'll probably start hammering away at that before 1.5, but after 1.4.
they "fixed" all okw team weapon stats so RA to 1 from 0.8 good luck not dying from tank (i always said the rak need a larger frontal armor )
RA doesn't protect vs shells in most cases. Tanks mgs, sure.
The main issue with the King Tiger in terms of facing it has to do with its scatter and AOE where it can snipe things such as ATGs just as well as specialist AI tanks at range.
T70 Scatter
Angle Scatter 7.5
Distance Scatter Max 2.5
Scatter Offset: 0.15
Scatter Ration: 1
King Tiger Scatter
Angle Scatter: 4
Distance Scatter Max: 4
Scatter Offset: 0.25
Scatter Ratio: 1
Sherman HE
Angle Scatter: 6
Distance Scatter Max: 5.5
Scatter Offset: 0.3
Scatter Ratio: 1
None of this includes the fact the King Tiger's main gun deals 240 damage vs the 40 of a T70 or 160 of a Sherman HE round which increases the radius it OHK's infantry. A lot of units in this game should be trading their massive radius on infantry for more damage on the outer edges so they are not punished so heavily for misses, but squads won't evaporate if someone rolled well.
Demo changes are so stupid, now instead of paying 90 ammo I will put a demo+mine/flare on top so it can blow up on time. and they won't even kill units on houses anymore. Atleast the werhbabbies will stop crying about it and realize that demos were never the problem.
Go back a bit. Triggering the charge still starts a count down and demos will still outright kill most buildings -and when they die so does everyone inside- especially EF ones.
On T-34s, they're still the cheapest tanks in the game that can engage most targets, particularly infantry with its gun and MGs. What do you want for a 300/90 package? There are other vehicles if you want specialist counters.
The demo charge change is fine but together with flare change all it does it decrease cost of demo to 75 munition.
We've already predicted that. Trying to blow up demos passively still sets off the timer.
Primarily, you are going to use your demos vs structures, since they are now affordable. You could also try to score a cheeky wipe on the retreat path.
On the M36, those changes, in my opinion, might not stick. We're currently trying to figure out how to make the M36 retain at least a health pool large enough to take 4 shots to kill, while also seeing how we can make its damage work so it doesn't demolish anything not sitting on a 640 health pool, which means 3 shotting StuG Gs, 2 shooting any lights, and 4 shotting Panthers, yet still remain anti-heavy. I would have suggested target tables, but we're avoiding it for the sake of a possible mess. We have to remember that the M36 is still the most mobile TD and has an actual turret that works.
There have been ideas to simply boost its ROF and I've also leaned towards allowing it to deal deflection due to the lower direct output.
V1.3 Show Spoiler DBP V1.3 UPDATE
The December Balance Preview is off to a good start and the community's feedback has been incredibly helpful as we work on fine tuning these changes throughout the remainder of the iteration period. In this update we changed focus to look at various elite infantry units and potential over performing bonuses acquired through veterancy. The following proposed changes is aimed to help within infantry scaling for various factions.
Commander Revamp Update
As the Commander Revamp survey has now closed, we are excited to announce which commanders we will be looking at revitalize in the December Update. We hope to complete our first pass on the proposed changes to the commanders listed below will before the end of next week. Similar to all Balance Preview changes, the Commander Revamp changes will be available to test in the DBP Mod when the changes are ready to go.
Commander Revamp Commanders
* (USF) Recon Support Company
* (USF) Mechanized Company
* (SOVIET) Tank Hunter Tactics
* (SOVIET) Guard Rifle Combined Arms Tactics
* (BRITISH) Royal Engineer Regiment
* (BRITISH) Commando Regiment
* (OKW) Feuersturm Doctrine
* (OKW) Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine
* (WEHRMACHT) Jaeger Light Infantry
* (WEHRMACHT) Osttruppen Doctrine)
GENERAL
Infiltration Units
To give players a better chance to react to infiltration units and to reduce the number of guaranteed squad wipes caused by infiltration units, the following change has been made:
All abilities now start on cooldown (the default cooldown of the ability)
This affects:
Infiltration Commandos
Fallschirmjager
Partisans, both variants
Stormtroopers
JLI
Demo Charges
To give players an opportunity to react to activated demo charges and to reduce mass squads wipes of this weapon, the following changes have been made:
Demo Charges now have a 3s timer once activated (timer is visible to all players; similar to satchel)
Cost reduced from 90MU to 65MU
Garrisoning
We have made some fine tuning changes to garrisoning to make it feel more responsive and reduce squad wipes on building destruction.
Reduce unload time from 0.5 to 0.375 (per model)
Reduce load time from 1 to 0.75 (per model; 3.25 remains max per squad)
Reduced grenade damage vs buildings (the structure itself; not the units garrisoned inside)
USF
Rear Echelons
Volley-Fireâs potency is being reduced on weapon rack items to prevent Rear Echelon from immediately pinning down infantry in the late game if they are upgraded.
Toned down Volley fire for slot weapons; now all slot weapons gain a 0.0025 suppression that does not ramp up
Lowered suppression values for the BAR by 50% and the M1919 LMG by 70% when Volley-Fire is active.
Captain
âOn Me!â will no longer provide combat bonuses to better represent the abilities lack of munitions cost and to limit the power of blobbing infantry around the Captain. âOn Me!â will still break suppression and allow infantry to sprint to allow USF players to relocate units on the field.
Removed the weapon accuracy and received accuracy bonuses from âOn Me!â (it still breaks suppression and makes inf run faster)
M36 Jackson
The M36 is having its damage modified to make it less potent in terms of burst damage against lower health vehicles while becoming more reliable vs heavy tanks (HVAP rounds remain unchanged).
Damage from 200 to 160
Penetration from 240/220/200 to 260/240/220
SOVIETS
Soviet Forward HQ (Commander Ability)
To make this ability less frustrating to counter while keeping it a viable option for Soviet players, the following changes have been made:
Requires structure to be in connected territory.
+50% damage converted to+25% accuracy
Armor modifier from +50% to +25%
Reduced cost from 300MP/60FU to 250MP/40FU
For Mother Russia (Commander Ability)
The âFor Mother Russiaâ ability is having its potency reduced to bring it in-line with the recent changes to Conscripts.
+100% Armour bonus removed (accuracy and speed bonuses remain)
Duration reduced from 60 seconds to 30.
Conscripts
We are reverting the AT grenade and Moltov upgrade merge due to its cost effectiveness while making minor adjustments to some Conscript abilities.
Molotov cost from 15 to 20 (does not affect Partisans)
Tripwire cooldown from 0 to 30
AT Grenade upgrade and Molotov upgrade are once again separate
Molotov tech cost reduced from 125MP/15FU to 80MP/10FU
T-34/76
We are slightly increasing the cost of the T-34/76 to match its performance.
Fuel price increased from 80 to 90
PM-42 (Soviet T2 mortar)
The PM-42 Mortar will now have the âFlareâ ability from the start to provide vital scouting information and to give the Soviet mortar a more utility oriented role when it is deployed.
âFlareâ ability no longer requires veterancy
Veterancy 1 reduces âFlareâ recharge by 25%
ZiS-3 Divisional Field Gun (AT gun)
We are improving ZiS-3 access to its barrage ability to make up for its low rate of fire and limited penetration. This will emphasize ZiS-3âs secondary role as an indirect fire unit that can soften up enemy positions.
Popcap reduced from 9 to 7, to match its performance
Reduced cost of ZiS-3 barrage ability from 60MU to 35MU
WEHRMACHT
Grenadiers
Grenadiers are receiving a decrease to their population to better match their performance in comparison to other mainline infantry.
Popcap reduced from 7 to 6
Pak 40
The Pak 40 is having its population reduced to better match its performance with other anti-tank guns.
Popcap decreased from 9 to 8 to match actual performance
251 Flamethrowers
With the recent changes to garrisons, the 251 is getting a reduction to its damage against entrenched infantry to give players a chance to react and de-garrison.
Far-aoe reduced from 1 to 0.5 (only really affects anti-garrison damage)
Stug G
We found StuG Gâs âTarget Weakpointâ ability over performs for its cost while unit's machine gun lacked some needed defensive capabilities vs infantry. Thus, the following changes have been made:
TWP's main-gun disable reduced from 15 seconds to a blind critical that lasts 5 seconds.
TWP's damage reduced to 50% (to account for guaranteed penetration)
MG cost reduced from 50 to 35
MG range increased from 35 to 40
Ostwind
The Ostwind is being improved to make it more consistent and reliable as an anti-infantry platform (regardless of map) while still able to chip away at armoured vehicles.
Projectile no longer collides with terrain
Distance scatter max increased from 2.9 to 3.5
AOE distance reduced from 1/1.25/1.5 to 0.5/1.5/2 (to compensate for projectile changes)
AOE damage reduced from 1/0.15/0.05 to 0.8/0.2/0.1 (to compensate for projectile changes)
Cost reduced from 100FU to 90FU (does not affect the OKW version)
Penetration increased from 45/40/35 to 55/50/45
Max range increased from 40 to 45
Tiger (does not affect Tiger Ace)
The Tiger is receiving mobility boosts to allow the Tiger to navigate the battlefield more easily and disengage from threats such as anti-tank guns or tank destroyers.
Speed from 4.7 to 5.2
Acceleration from 1.5 to 1.8.
Deceleration from 1.8 to 2
Popcap increased from 19 to 20
Panzer IV
To allow the Panzer IV to better combat medium tanks at a distance where it has the advantage of stronger frontal armour and rate of fire, the unit is receiving a slight penetration increase.
Penetration increased from 120/110/100 to 125/115/110
Fuel cost reduced from 125 to 120
Panther V
Now in an even better spot.
Coaxial and hull MGs performance improved to now match that of OKW Panther
Elefant
Given the Elefantâs role as a dedicated anti-armour vehicle, its accuracy is being increased to improve reliability at range.
Accuracy increased from 0.05/0.375/0.025 to 0.055/0.045/0.03
**JU87 Close Air Support Loiter (Commander Ability) **
We are slightly lowering the damage of the JU-87 to ensure it remains a potent ability, but is no longer capable of outright destroying medium tanks in a single pass.
JU87 Loiter damage reduction from 60 to 50
OKW
Sturmpioneers
We are increasing the viability of Sturmpioneers to allow them to better support the rest of OKW army in a combat role.
Reinforce time decreased from 10s to 7s.
Build time decreased from 40s to 28s.
Population cost decreased from 9 to 8
Panzerschreck price decreased from 90 to 70
Veterancy Changes
Veterancy 4 -23% Received Accuracy and +15% accuracy bonuses removed
Veterancy 5 +40% weapon accuracy moved to Veterancy 4 (Vet 5 bonus of no longer taking extra damage while repairing remains)
Veterancy requirements reduced to 580/1160/2320/2900/3770 (approximately a 10% reduction)
Base Flak Defenses
We are removing the OKW's free Anti-air capabilities to bring their AA better in-line with other factions.
Can no longer fire at air targets
Schwerer Panzer Headquarters
Due to the nature of the Panzer Headquarters flak cannon, we are limiting its ability to shut down aerial-based abilities without some form of trade-off.
No longer automatically engages aircraft
Now has an Anti Air ability which activates AA mode for 60 seconds (while active it can engage both ground and air targets). After AA ability finishes, the gun will go on a cooldown for 60s where it can not engage any targets (air or ground)
Stuka
We are adjusting the performance of the Stuka to prevent it from destroying team weapons and buildings in a single attack while making it more vulnerable to flanks and assaulting tanks.
Damage vs team weapons reduced by ~50% (affects the weapon, not the squad)
Damage vs Garrison buildings reduced by 50% (affects the building, not garrisoned squads)
HP reduced from 320 to 160
Panzer II âLuchsâ
The following changes aims to reduce the Luchs potency vs vehicles and further define its role as an anti-infantry unit.
Moving scatter penalties increased from 1.25 to 2
Target table modifier vs vehicles of 0.0625 added
Volksgrenadiers
We found that high veterancy and upgraded Volksgrenadiers scaled too well vs other core infantry and overshadowed much of the OKW's own elite infantry. To compensate for this, the following changes have been made:
Flame grenade now unlocked when the first sWS Supply Half-track hits the field
Flame grenade now has a 0.75s timer on explosion
Faust price reduced from 30 to 25
Veterancy Changes
Veterancy 3 Received Accuracy bonus increased from 0.9 0.86
Volks require cover and to be stationary to benefit from their Vet 4 sight bonus
Vet 3's passive healing ability moved to Vet 5
All combat bonuses from Vet 4 and Vet 5 (+15% accuracy bonus & -20% weapon cooldown)
Sturmtiger
The Sturmtiger is being further adjusted to limit its ability to hide in the FOW and destroy units without being seen. In return, we are improving aspects of the Sturmtiger's defensive capabilities to compensate.
Popcap reverted from 20 to 18
Sturmtiger can no longer fire through buildings (Buildings now act as shot blockers)
Range reduced from 45 to 40
Reload duration decreased from 50 seconds to 40 seconds
Veterancy requirements decreased by 33%
Veterancy 1 grenade far damage increased from 0.05 to 0.25, radius decreased from 5 to 4.5, and AOE penetration decreased from 23 to 15
Le.IG 18
The Le.IG is being tuned to require more player input to be used effectively. In return we are boosting its damage against ambient structures improving its support and anti-garrison ability.
Auto-attack range decreased from 100 to 85
Autoattack range bonus removed from Veterancy 1
Anti-structure damage increased (from 1/0.5/0.25 to 2/0.3/0.15)
HE Barrage recharge time increased from 30 secs to 40 secs
Smoke barrage recharge time independent from HE barrage
Intel Bulletin for barrage recharge lowered from -25% recharge to -10% recharge
Kubel
The Kubelwagenâs armour is being slightly adjusted to make the Kubel more vulnerable to strikes from the front, but slightly less vulnerable to flanks. The previous changes to hitpoint and armour meant a Kubelwagen could still cost-effectively duel most infantry units in the field during the early game.
Front armour further reduced from 3.5 to 3
Rear armour partially reverted from 1.6 to 1.9
Panzer IV
We want to make OKW Panzer IV to be slightly less vulnerable to infantry rushes and more effective in a generalist anti-infantry / anti-tank role. To accomplish this, the following changes have been made:
Cost changed from 360MP/150FU to 380MP/140FU
Population cost increased from 12 to 14
Scatter improved from 7.5/6.4 (angle/distance) to 6.5/5.54
Penetration increased from 120/110/100 to 125/115/110
Veterancy Changes
Veterancy 2 scatter veterancy increased from 0.75 to 0.866
Veterancy 4 range bonus removed (scatter bonus remains)
Veterancy 5 - Panzer IV must be stationary to benefit from sight bonus (similar to spotting scopes)
Panther V
We are adjusting OKW Panther veterancy to be more manageable for the opposing player at its later levels.
Veterancy 4 range bonus removed (scatter bonus remains)
Veterancy 5 - Panther V must be stationary to benefit from sight bonus (similar to spotting scopes)
King Tiger
The KT has received a slight adjustment to its veterancy 4 to help prevent it from out scaling opposing players.
Vet 4 range bonus removed (scatter bonus remains)
Pazerfusiliers
The following changes aim to put Panzerfusilliers on-par with other, similar infantry in the late game and encourage the use of flares for increased sight.
Population from 6 to 8
G43 upgrade sight range from +50% to +20% (from 52.5 to 42)
Veterancy 4 +15% accuracy changed to +15% capture and decapture rate.
Obersoldaten
Obersoldaten are being made more accessible through a number of changes with only some adjustment regarding their late game veterancy to prevent them from them out scaling counterpart infantry units.
Cost reduced from 400 to 340
LMG34 and Stg44 munitions cost increased from 60 to 80
Reduce reinforcement time from 12.5+ to 9
Built-time from decreased from 50 seconds to 36s.
Reduce popcap reduced from 10 to 9
Veterancy 4 received accuracy bonus removed
Veterancy 4 suppression bonus converted to âSuppressive Fire abilityâ
Fallschirmjäger
Fallschirmjager are being adjusted to have better stock performance with only minor changes to their veterancy. Population is also being adjusted to match other Axis elite squads.
RA improved from 0.87 to 0.83
Veterancy 3 received accuracy bonus removed
Population from 8 to 9
Can now camouflage in cover when stationary without veterancy
JP4
We feel that the Jagdpanzers veterancy bonuses made it scale too well and become too lethal at higher veterancy. To reduce its lethality while keeping it an effective Tank Destroyer we've made the following changes:
Increase range from which it can be detected from 10 to 20
Veterancy Changes
Veterancy 2 armour and sight bonus removed
Vet 2 now increases accuracy by 20%
Veterancy 5 ambush damage/accuracy/pen bonus reduced from +150% to +25%
Raketenwerfer
To make the Raketen more reliable and consistent while bringing its stealth better in-line with other stealthed units, we've made the following changes:
Vet 1 speed bonus when stealthed reduced from +100% to +25%
Projectile now ignores terrain
Raketenwerfer can no longer be suppressed
BRITISH
PIATs
Due to the British's lack of snares and difficult competing against light vehicle rushes, the following changes have been made to the PIAT.
Range increased from 30 to 35
Far accuracy decreased from 0.038 to 0.025
Mid-range increased from 15 to 25
Trenches
* Trench target size now significantly increases when they are abandoned (to allow tanks/AT to clear and destroy)
Mortar pit
To bring the counter play between the Mortar Pit and LeIG in-line, we have made the following changes:
Mortar Pit auto-attack range decreased from 115 to 90
HE/smoke barrage cooldown decreased from 75 to 40 seconds
Smoke barrage on independent cooldown form HE barrage
BUG FIXES & QUALITY OF LIFE CHANGES
Fixed issue where USF grenade bulletins were not applying to Rear Echelon smoke
Readjusted pathfinding
Remove forced movement from Commando squads that have recently deployed (makes squads ignore orders)
Removed Tank Elite Armor, Tank Commander arty from firing into the base
Assault Engineer/Paratrooper minelaying speed too low
Changed Ostruppen cover bonus indicator. Instead of an overhead crosshair indicator, Ostruppen cover bonus displays in the same way as the Tommy cover bonus indicator
Increase duration of TWP-like abilities, to match initial delay
Added a warning line for Stun Grenades
That would be correct. Troubleshooting is still going on regarding the uploading/updating.
4) thanks to Miragefla for the stats,but mg34 almost like mg42 is total bullshit.
The difference given by ROF is huge by itself, and green/yellow cover amplify that.
Bringing up lab numbers for something influenced by internal and external factors like suppression is useless, I mean, i'm sure stats helped modders a lot back when they rebalanced maxim..
VIDEO
I tested the MG-34 a while back. Aside from killing power, their suppression is roughly the same in most cases, aka one burst. Note this is a suppression test, not a killing power test.
Only issue with the MG 34 is veterancy/damage. The stats that affect suppression aren't even that great.
Show Spoiler Suppression Values:
MG-34: 0.0125
MG-42: 0.012
Burst:
MG-34 RoF: 14
MG 42 RoF : 16
Cooldown:
MG-34: 1.75/2.5
MG 42: 2.5/3
This does not include damage or accuracy which are the main differences between both weapons, but have 0 impact on suppression. An MG could have 0 accuracy and still suppress.
Note I am going through the replays. I have a few casted where a few changes are looked over when they popped up. Hopefully the upcoming ones will have more of the changes put into play.