Profile of cr4wler

another thing that would make things easier (and would also be a great thing in general)... watch replays with your friends. i.e. you open up a replay like a skirmish, you can invite your friends, they automatically download the replay, host can start/pause the replay etc.
would be great for casting and great in general if you want to show your friend a replay/mentor somebody or whatever.

It should be an important part, I tend to play games for entertainment.

me too, for the most part :-) but i will not have any fun playing the game if it is unbalanced as fuck (which does not mean that even a perfectly balanced matchup might not be boring)

That's why I'd greatly like a discussion on symmetry and asymmetry in RTS games. See Arne's post, and the time I repeated it.

imho, no need to... because i totally agree with you both on that one... i also feel like asymmetric gameplay makes for far more entertaining matches both playing and watching. again: look at SC2, or imagine a vCoH wehr vs. wehr matchup where both go for piospam....

Letting the faction pick be decided by VPs from previous games is not elegant.

i agree too... but VP lead probably is the "best" method in this case (though i think that is not a mirror/non-mirror specific issue: you still might have the problem of starting position pick or map pick or... or... or...).

I think you're just arguing for arguments sake now. I'm not sure if you're deliberately misunderstanding me, or are just being a dick because I disagree with you, but I literally don't know how to respond to you when you go off on irrelevant tangents instead of addressing what I am actually saying.

and that's EXACTLY how i felt about you :-)
ignoring the relevant parts, twisting words, misinterpreting...

i gave plenty of reasons why (i think) mirror matchups will not be something that will add to the game if available in automatch. if they are available in automatch, they are forced upon you, if they are available just for basic matches... who the fuck cares? and your argument about just having them for basic games would be pointless... so you also think that all 4v4, almost all 3v3 maps, most 2v2 maps, and quite a few 1v1 maps should've been added to CoH? they're not in automatch afterall... they don't add to competitiveness... Yes, but they can still be fun in some way or another, and it doesn't need to be balanced. automatch needs to be reasonably balanced. with mirror matchups it will be even less balanced (or even harder to balance). Also: (again) look at other games with mirror matchups... i'd guess in 95% of those games mirror matchups are the ones that are despised the most, for whatever reason.

Con mirror match boils down to: could be boring.

like i said, "could be boring" (or in my opinion: "very likely to be boring") is not even the important part... it's the balance that i'm worried about.

even if you say "oh, most of that is map imbalances". even if it is 100% map imbalances... the maps that are balanced for mirror matchups are most likely horrible for non mirrors and vice versa.

also: i don't see how mirrors add to competetiveness (and this has also been mentioned earlier).
or asking the other way around: explain HOW they add to competetiveness?

last point: if relic manages to perfectly balance both mirror matchups and non mirrors, then i don't care about mirrors at all.

That's a crazy assertion to make considering the alpha has only been out for but a few days. Even so, that would be an issue with intra-faction balance, and to my knowledge, most people in favour of mirror matches have stated quite clearly that if the mirror match balance just isn't working out for Relic, then they shouldn't be in the game. Nobody wants that kind of imbalance for any of the factions, mirror or not. But that's not an issue that's solely related to mirror matches, and it's certainly not a reasonable argument against them.

it's a crazy assertion that i was talking about the alpha, since i never said i was in the alpha, and even if i was, i would break an NDA by talking about it.

and it IS a reasonable argument against them.... like you said: "then they shouldn't be in the game".


and to quote you: nobody has made a reasonable argument FOR mirror matchups. and if you start quoting them: they are all unreasonable :-P


about completely symmetric maps: i can't image anything more boring than mirrored maps for mirror matchups...

But I'm not wrong though, am I? Care to elaborate?

How so? A mirror match be definition is perfectly balanced.

okay, let's say wehr mirror on ango (which is a symmetrical map).
perfectly balanced, right? imho: wrong. south wehr is a whole lot easier to play than north.
similarly i'd prefer south langres, south semois, north sturz etc. etc. etc.
another thing i already mentioned, is that usually in mirror matchups the diversity of tactics that are available just isn't there (at least in most other RTS games). it basically is "do this build, or you risk getting your ass handed to you by a player that might not even be half as good as you are".

also: if you think there's been no points made as to why mirror matchups should not be in automatch, then you haven't read this thread at all, which is a shame for coh2 :-P

mirror matchups are not a thing that will break the game for me, but i'd still prefer not having them.