ur concept of artillery is flawed, it is not an AI unit. it is an artillery. lets not simplify this. AI units are not units that are great against infantry, they are incidentally, also direct fire units. direct fire units are going to expose themselves to the battlefield and all its dangers. a t3485 can be great against tanks and infantry, but it can also be negated, contained and prevented from doing too much damage. rakentenwerfer, paks and schrecks, germans have more than enough anti tank weapons.
but the stuka is an artillery, i cannot negate its firepower, i can only brace for it and the best i can do is spread out and take reduced casualties. i would stop all these, if relic is to include isreal anti missile systems to the factions for 450mp and 125 fuel with a 90% chance to shoot down rockets. but no, i can spread out but it wont work. but smart players will not bother, they will not aim at a general area chock full of delicious meatbags. instead, with stuka's ability to squad wipe, they will fire at individual squads and wipe them 1 by 1. so even after proper countermeasures to artillery, stuka just shits on that theory and still wipes squads.
the reason why im so adamant is because sooner or later, people are going to get better, the crying will start all over again when people finally learn to abuse this thing. im all for balance but this is not 1 of them.
sure, if you think an AI unit must have 50 kills before it is useful, we have a problem. most units have barely more than 10 kills, people retreat them before models start dropping. but they cede territory.
For 130 Fuel if it can only kill infantry and it is well used in a team game yes I expect it to do exceptionally well. Otherwise why build it? I can build multiple ISGs and do better AND have armor. Even in the example you gave where you seem to think it did exceptionally well I disagree. Again I can do the same if not better with other "Artillery" be them mortars or Infantry Assault guns. I am not in anyway seeing how the Walking Stuka in any example is in anyway Overpowered for what it costs. |
30+ kills hurts, 26 hurts too. what i wanted to point out was its effectiveness as compared to its point-click-die play style.
it was unimpressive, it doesnt matter, it doesnt have to be. if it was fun, stuka would be balanced. mortars no longer 1 shot stuff, not much at least. i can retreat to reinforce. you have to kill 12 conscripts for 240mp damage, 12mxaim crews for 240mp damage and 12 guards for 330mp damage and i still wont lose my 75munition investment. that is around 36 over kills. also, the ostmortar had a much longer time frame of usage. instead, the stuka achieve that by killing only 26guys, or 22 discounting lucky rng saving me and in a smaller time frame.
as for 120mm, he blobbed, a single shell took out 4 guys from 3 squads, no squadwipe and he retreated. that is proper anti blob tool. if the stuka did stuff like that, it would be fine. but now it blasts a tiny area with all its munitions and kills everything in it.
mortars priests and katyushas all share this firing pause characteristic, 1 by 1 the shells come and relocating of units is still possible even if you are hit because chances are the 1st shell dont really nail ur forces and its a bloody good indicator to gtfo. but staying long in the area means you are going to get hit sooner or later. stuka? lol, the moment the 1st shell lands,if you are not out of the area 2secs before then, you are going to lose something.
stuka and obers just makes games much harder than it should have been, quick squad wipe strikes that puts a gaping hole in your army, rather than slowly chipping away and bleeding you. skill involved? not much, not with units that you can A move with. or drop no-smoke-1sec-to-land arty on stuff.
If I have an AI unit and it DOESNT get more than 30 kills in a match and has a price tag like that...its a waste.
If it touched you in your no no spot and it must be nerfed cool. Make it fire every 30 seconds and do less damage so I can wrack up 50 kills with it...
That 90 second cool down for 100 fuel on a fuel starved faction is punishing. This unit is only cost viable in 3v3 and 4v4 from all the replays of it doing AMAZING that I have seen. ISG can get 30 kills a match. It AGAIN costs 0 fuel.
The walking stuka is hardly some OP monster. If anything I think its UP for 1v1 and 2v2 considering the cost.
It can be useful. CAN. Sure I want to hedge my 100 fuel on a possibility. Ummm on second though...no thanks.
Edit: And for damn near the same cost i can afford TWO T70s when playing Soviets or a single T34/85 call in. And I promise you TWO T70s well microd are going to negate infantry and AT Guns way wayyyy better. |
blob blob blob, i hear this word a few times, what actually constitutes to a blob, 4 squads moving together? or is it a single 6 man squad moving on its own?
look, im sick and tired of people saying not to blob. arty punishes blobbing, that is a good mechanic. but stuka is a arty piece that focuses all its rounds into a small area. that does not punish blobbing, that basically fucks anything off the face of the earth that is in its strike zone.
tldr, it has a good chance of 1 shotting squads and support teams, just like the isu.
the stuka, needs to be affected by scatter, it is as simple as that.
also to those saying stuka has a sound. yes they sure do, also the shells lands as fast as it is fired and here's a replay to show.
http://www.coh2.org/replay/19918/just-to-make-a-point.
you can bitch about how badly we played and stuff like that but thats not the point. they were good players and we got mashed, but stuka, god damn. almost immediate reaction, still couldn't save anything.
I asked for 30+ kills. I saw 26. But I also saw double Oshteer mortars getting about 20 in that time. I also saw 12 for a very short lived 120MM.
Both the Ostheer mortar and the 120MM cost no fuel. Do you think they are OP?
Again this replay is totally unimpressive. Light Arty Barrage as Ost can accomplish this again no fuel cost.
100 Fuel (133 adjusted for inflation) for what was just Mediocre because of good use. Not good. Not Great. Mediocre. I can do better with a Single T70 and its overall more useful imho then a walking Stuka. |
M8A1 is a goddamn beast, whenever I see one it wrecks havoc.
Also don't forget the Priest, Major's arty call-in etc.
This. M8 damn you CURSEEEE YOU! |
+1 |
I agree 100% with Napalm.
Lets see What to pick infantry wise whatttt to Pick....
Well these pesky Sturm Pios are great at close to mid range sooooo...
Conscripts? No to close range ok then
Penals? No still too close range?
STs? Crap yet again close range but at least can beat Sturms
Guards? OMG A LONG RANGE UNIT! Guess ill just use T34/85s might as well...
I have been saying this since the change to Penals. Make them long range DPS units like they used to be. But without the absurd cost. |
Tiger Ace Wins. It can come with a whole army of PIVs for escort since it costs 0 fuel.
Both or potent but the Tiger Ace is actually faster and easier to preserve.
Elite forces is still retarded.... |
How unrealistic Artillery killing armor. That never happened |
I took the Luchs to be a heavy recon vehicle that is suited to anti infantry role vs the Puma, which is light AT. Although I think the Luch's fighting power vs infantry is worse than the flaktrack, whose only drawback is that it has to set up and tear down before firing or moving.
That said, I hardly ever use the Luchs. If I wanted anti-infantry I go flaktrack, despite the weaknesses. The flaktrack can suppress/pin as well, so I might as well use it like a heavy-duty HMG unit.
My thoughts on it are since it was originally an early vehicle its role was to chase M3s and light vehicles like a 222. But since its in T4 this doesnt work. Because its not really a huge threat to Infantry similarly to a 222. It can pick at them but threat it is not. It really needs to be buffed or moved to T0/T1.
If this is true its just always going to be a disappointment |
It needs to stand still to fire with some accuracy (and burst length), else it will constantly miss infantry. Besides that the gun seems to have a dead zone in close range, as it will constantly overshoot the enemy. Try not moving too close. I found it can deal massive damage if it's shooting at targets in 15 to 20 range when standing still.
In general I'm not that sure about the tank. Yes, it's useful, but it's main role as an infantry kiting and killing tank gets kind of negated by the fact it's so bad on the move :/
Yes and this appears to be a known issue. As the Blob of STs I was talking about were just running up all over the thing. Resulting in me getting 0 kills. If they want it to fight at range it must have 0 accuracy penalty on the move for it to be worth it.
I used it the same way I would use a T70. Shoot and scoot. Sit still and fire yet since it was pointblank it didnt matter.
Is this something that is intended? Or lazyness/Oversight. As it appears to fire the same way the crappy flak emplacement fires. Same animation and everything. Did relic just get lazy and plop that emplament on tracks and call it a Luchs? Sure seems like it. |