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Lets just keep the Kat where it is. Increase it to 100 fuel. Reduce the Walking Stukas cool down to match. Then give the Walking Stuka Vet 1 Precision strike and see how that pans out?
No? I thought not.... |
while i like the idea think about the repercussions of a t70 scouting for su85s. 
Like Vet 1 Shermans for Jacksons? Oh but not quite as effective |
US also struggles on the offmap department apart from Airborne, but that's more due to having only 3 commanders and the ''wonderful'' War Spoils system making so you could be stuck with those 3 commanders for months. Yet their mobile artillery, the Priest, is nowhere near as good, as well as doctrinal to boot, despite being fairly similar in price.
I'm comparing the Zu Fuss to its counterparts, the mobile artillerys. And in that comparison it is a very, very clear winner. Priest is OK, Panzerwerfer is RNG dependent but decent, Katyusha mostly sucks, walking Stuka is awesome. Sure, OKW units are supposed to perform well, but that doesn't mean their units cannot be OP. And if the ISU-152, a costly doctrinal direct fire unit, is considered overpowered for its ability to wipe squads, it seems to me that an indirect fire unit that costs much less yet can do the same is just wrong.
It's especially stupid against AT guns. I played a game where my opponent had a screen of them and used them well along with his T-34s. 3 barrages later, 1 gun decrewed, one captured and one outright destroyed. I also wiped a Maxim that retreated as soon as the rockets started falling and still got gibbed. I felt like the walking stuka handed me an easy win. Artillery being a blob and support weapon counter is one thing, invalidating them by its very presence is quite another.
Actually all of US offmaps are superior to OKW IMHO. And the use has the M8 which I would GLADLY turn in the Walking Stuka for in less than a second. |
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Either cut and paste the M8 with no turret. Move it to another Tier. Make it a puma clone. Right now its not as good at indirect as the M8 and not as good of a light tank killer as the Puma.
But relic hates this unit and wants it to always suck. |
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Also note in the standard commanders OKW also has no real off map. The ones it has are late game and only work on enemy owned territory. Assault artillery also has a MASSIVE lead time before any shells start to land, costs 200 muni with hampered resouces and only hits around the cap point i.e. if your not in that little capture circle and are not blobbed it has a really low chance to hit.
So which is deadlier?
Ost having the no reduced income, the ability to utilize Caches/Airdrops/Opels and being able to spam off maps with little to no risk and no fuel investment or OKW having a situational extremely game mode/map dependent unit that costs a fortune.
I have killed blobs better with both Stuka and Light Arty barrage more consistant then with the walking stuka.
I think this is a knee jerk thread. |
1) Soviet Howitzer: Sometimes I forgot it exists because nobody built one since beta, but it can't move, you can guess easily its max range and it's easy to retreat after the first shell lands. You should be really unfortunate to lose a full squad with the first shell. To add up, it is doctrinal. Huge AoE, but crappy accuracy.
2) 120 mortar: It has been nerfed from its former glory, I doubt seriously it can now wipe a full healed and vetted unit with just one shell. Usually it wipes wounded or maimed units. Even so, you can always retreat when you see it firing. By the way, it is also doctrinal and very easy to destroy it flanking with infantry. Small AoE, terrible accuracy
3) B4: Slow as hell, and yes it can wipe squads if you forgot about them and they stay static. Even so, the unit is static like a howitzer and easy to take care of. Guess what? Doctrinal too. Pinpoint AoE.
Stuka: mobile arty, you can't counter barrage it. It is not doctrinal, you can always build it. Usually there's no possibility to retreat for support weapons. Unit annihilation garanteed in 95% of cases. Huge AoE, 100% accuracy.
Don't you see that usually potentially squad-wiping units are static, with bad accuracy and easy to avoid and counter? Stuka hasn't not any of these flaws, being its only counter to suicide a T34 in order of killing it.
Any Vet 1 Soviet Arty has the potential to squad whipe. Even the lowly crap-tastic Kat. Also Demo charges can whipe multiple squads. ISU can still whipe squads. M8 can whipe squads. How about Mortar HT incin strike? Light Artillery Barrage. Stuka Dive Bomber.
100 second recharge. The width of about a T70 and a long line. Do you line up all your support squads?
The Walking Stuka always gets less kills in my games than an ISG. If it does well then great its a 100 fuel.
I would be fine however with it being 50 fuel and 60 second recharge for less effectivness. But thats not gonna happen. |
Well, you still need to be able to actually get into the lategame to reap the benefits of veterancy. And in 1v1, that is quite a difficult task against a competent US player - in 2v2 and up, conversely not so much. Plus, what would be the point of Volks if even with their accumulated vet they still could not hold up to riflemen at any range? As a mere placeholder/economy of force infantry they are too expensive.
That being said, I think Volks are fine statswise, although a slight cost decrease for the Schreck might be in order - which is really not a terribly effective or reliable tool for AT. You still need it, if only for auxiliary AT purposes and to vet faster, but it most certainly is not dependable to stop even well microed light armor.
Volks are meat shields. Just look at their vet bonuses. They fight OK like slightly retarded conscripts BUT they get killer armor bonuses and self healing. Then the Shrek plus they are sniper resistant and mine resistant. They are meant to be shrek platforms or ambush grenade throwers. Honestly I like Ambush Grenade volks better than PPSH Cons.
They were obviously meant to be your screening force. They are cheap and with vet highly durable with an officer very deadly and get AT. I see nothing at all wrong with volks all things taken into consideration. They are my favorite infantry squad.
Want to get your Sturmpios in facerape range? CHARGE VOLKS! They do a fantastic job in this role and are a much needed cheap unit for OKW. They arent for fighting they are for dying. |
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I agree with Napalm. I have for the last 8 games as Soviets tried to use a conscript based army against OKW. Its just a bad bad idea. Its even worse if you try Penals. You either need Dual snipers or Maxims to deal with that level of firepower. You need to debuff it so to speak by either suppression or sniping.
Milka you always have good points of course. Talking about Penals and Scripts Volks and Sturms. But one thing you left out of the equation is the first Sturmpio is Free.
So he goes 4x Cons I go 3x Volks I just spent less and have a much stronger fighting force. Then I start to call in Falls or hard tech to obers and LOL.
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I think I am the only person on the forums that doesnt like the new direction.
They did a good job balancing for sure. There are still somethings but nothing is perfect.
But my issue is. I dont like blobbing. I really dont. And there is alot more of it now then there was pre WFA. Blobbing is boring for me.
Also the released only three commanders per faction. The other come from drops that are super rare. I have been dropped multiple duplicate Ostheer commanders of course.
Part of the fun of the game for me is trying new strats. Different ways to use different things. The base COH2 had enough commanders for me to do this with and keep me entertained. But with WFA hiding them behind a grind gate I have gotten bored.
Games are starting feel like ground hog day. Ok there will be at some point a blob...ok here are the three commanders I can use and thats it...oh look and he has the same three because well...he is in the same boat as I am. |
Why does a lot of people assume that's just because OKWs units can vet up to 5 instead of 3, their raw stats vet bonuses are so much better than those of other factions?
Hint: they are not.
I would say because they arent posted somewhere where everybody can see them...hint hint |
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