Keep in mind that the fast setup time also allows you to a-move the Maxim, and use it in a more agressive manner.
At the same time flanking an HMG42 is more deadly, same goes for nading it, a Maxim will still mostly get out... except it's crew decides to bunch up again
So yeah, i kinda have to agree with VonIvan here. If the crew wouldn't bunch up all the time, it could certainly make more use of it's better durability.
While it is better at attacking, it is also less good at defending bigger areas. You have to do a lot more guessing as to where the enemy will come from if you use it to say, defend your cut off on Road to Karkov. The offensive capabilities of the maxim already don't come for free.
And when it comes to grenades, all HMGs have it tough. While the maxim may be slightly better at dodging grenades if you pick up early enough (i.e. before it is thrown) it also already suffers from the drawback that the HMG gets dropped if the gunner is killed, forcing the whole squad to stop their retreat and pick the gun back up. So while the other members may have fled a bit more, the slower turning maxim gunner may get killed, allowing you to do more damage to it and potentially wipe the squad. Other HMGs don't have this, if the gunner is killed on retreat, the gun just magically teleports to the next guy; making it easier for the squad to escape compared to the maxim.
The maxim has some pros en cons that already weigh up to the pros and cons of other HMGs, the only difference is that the maxim does not do the 1 job it is supposed to do unlike other HMGs. |
I think you're missing the point of a HMG....
No, you are missing the point of an HMG by suggesting that the maxim is fine because it is basically and LMG with supression.
The point of an HMG is to suppress blobs.
The maxim is an HMG.
The maxim does not suppress blobs.
Ergo, the maxim is not fine.
The pack up speed and deploy speed are already accounted for by the maxims tiny arch. You have to pack up and re-direct a lot more often with the maxim than you do with an HMG42. 1 is easier to flank but can set up faster. 1 is harder to flank but sets up slower. |
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AT specialist should remain AT specialist, they should give it Capture point Concrete Piercing round - can shoot through buildings + always pen (or pen x 2)
It is also easy to implement as mechanics are already in game.
That would also be an interesting feature for the StugG. |
Immunity to stunlock would only help IS-2s and T34/85s. All USF tanks and all soviet stock tanks are still killed without counterplay by 1 (in case of light tanks) or 2 mobile Stug Gs.
Seriously, I've been playing quite a few games as Ostheer and every time there was some sherman or T34/76 harassing me at a flank, I would move in with my 2 StugGs, fire a TWP round right of the bat and the enemy tanks fate was sealed even before he could see me. It's pretty broken. It's already probably too good on PAK40s, but on Stug Gs it's on a whole other level due to their mobility. |
You should probably not engage Katitof, he is like the Allied Sierra.
In any case, for anyone who thinks TWP on the Stug is alright, let me tell you a story:
Once upon a time there was a Soviet ability that could completely shut down a tank. This ability was called Button. Buttoned tanks were easy targets for other tanks and AT guns to destroy. However, Button had a number of disadvantages:
- The guards themselves could not actually kill the tank, you needed other AT sources to kill it.
- Guards were exposed to enemy fire, concentrated fire and/or grenades could break the button by forcing a retreat on the guards.
- Popping smoke would break button.
Nevertheless, Button was deemed OP (and rightly so) and was nerfed to a version that allowed more counter play:
- Tanks can now move and shoot slowly while buttoned, allowing them to drive out of range of the guards and break the button. This forces guards to close in more before using the ability, exposing them to more enemy firepower which can break the button by forcing a retreat. A good balance decision in my book.
Now look at TWP on the StugG...
- It's an ability of an AT tank, so no need for combined arms; The Stug is both the stunner and the killer; having another source of AT there near-guarantees a kill on a medium tank.
- There is nothing allied players can do to cancel the stun. Once you are stunned, you are stunned. No moving, no shooting, no focus fire to cancel the effects, no smoke to cancel the effects. No counterplay, just sit and hope the RNG gods smile upon you.
So in conclusion:
TWP on the Stug G is better than Button was even before Button got nerfed. If the old button needed a nerf (which it did in my opinion), then TWP on the StugG most certainly needs one too (or preferably, change it to something else like focus sight or HE shell barrage so you won't get inconsistencies with how TWP works with different units).
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well should the IS2 have any use in that situation? I dont understand what you want, youre charging a heavy into a wall of vetted tank destroyers.
KT couldnt charge into vet 2+ SU85s,could it?
even flank with T3476s and t70s to clear paks and team weapons and force stugs to turn while IS2 comes up the middle with infantry.. not like you can just spam IS2s anymore anyway,why not mix up the armor,and I dont know,use tactics while attacking a position instead of a-move is2 and drop flame bombs to wipe whole army.
A KT or a TA would not get stunlocked and die if they happen to cross paths with 2 vet 1 SU85s and a ZIS gun.
I personally think TWP on the Stug G is too much. I've been playing mostly Wehrmacht this patch and taking out enemy mediums with the Stug G is too damn easy. If there is an enemy medium on a flank and you have 2 StugGs and 1 of them is vet 1, you can roll in, fire TWP from 50 range and kill it without any counterplay options. TWP is excellent on the PAK40 and usefull on the elephant, but it is completely insane on the StugG. |
I meant fuel wise 2 Is2s, supported with one or two SU85s and you can rape any KT you come across
What do you want to say? 75 supply of an impossible to acquire army (unless you can find an abandoned IS-2) worth ~1800mp and 740fuel can beat a KT? I'd better well hope so. I don't see how this has anything to do with the discussion at hand though. |
It should never be a thing of brute force and numbers applied to a position. This is a real time tactical strategy. If you are careless in your command and pit your group of units into a machine gun's line of fire, it should be punishing. The entire point is that the MG controls those crowds and careless movements.
I agree. If only the same thing applied to maxims as well... |
If your opponent can get two KTs (or a KT and a call in heavy), you either have a shitload of Jacksons or two IS2s, or a few t34-85s or a few su85s.
If your opponent can get two KTs (or a KT and a call in heavy) and you cant get a shitload of Jacksons, two IS2s, a few t34-85s or a few su85s, something went horribly wrong on your side xd
You can't get 2 IS2s.
What happens in big team games is that Jacksons, T34s and SU85s are all medium tanks. They have low armor and low health compared to heavy tanks. The result is that it is easy to lose one here and there.
The KT on the other hand is a lot easier to keep alive. You won't lose it to small ambushes like you would lose a jackson if it got ambushed by a vet 1 stugG. You have to seriously over extend a KT to have it killed. 2 OKW heavy tanks is not that hard to achieve in big team games if you don't take needless risks. And once you have those 2 tanks... Well.. Good Luck allies... |
TBH I had a lot of encounters the last times I played where my pios in fact got wrecked by Echelons.
But on the other hand it could be because I am a noob
Did they have 2x BARS?
Otherwise the only real way for RE troops to beat Pios is when the RE troops use volley fire and the Pios close in without seeking cover. |