Thread: ST spam9 Jan 2014, 17:34 PM
In that case, yes, that is the "new" fashion.
Although Guard actually also beat vanilla Grens, and some Guard Commanders are very strong in abilities, so even though Shocks, with their extremely earlygame aggressive map contol are one issue at CP1, Guards are not that far behind, they just arent as popular or problematic to deal with by conventional Ost AI.
just talking 1v1, I go tier 2 one con 2 mg's and 2 shocks then AT guns, I went off guards because of Axis elite infantry or for that matter just pgrens ruining my day, there never seemed a point having AT capability when my enemies infantry could just run through me, my whole game revolves around controlling the infantry war, which I kept losing using guards.
the flame halftrack hurts, but I mine early and try to get AT guns out about the same time.
Had way more success with shocks than guards. |
So much hate. Calling every German an evil person for what happened is bullocks. Was every Russian soldier a true communist? Did every Englishman want the morale bombing?
If you think in those categories, you will only spread hate.
You might not believe it, but there actually were Germans who got conscripted into the war.
From wikipedia: "1935 conscription was reintroduced in the German Reich: Since then conscientious objectors were threatened with heavy prison sentences - usually detention in a concentration camp - and holding their refusal would result in the death penalty."
A sad thing that after almost 70 years, there seems to be so much hate towards each other. Don´t get me wrong: We shouldn´t forget what happened but seeing the content and attitude of some posts is just beyond me.
I'm sorry if you felt offended by my remark, I certainly don't hate Germans or anyone else for that matter, I certainly don't think Germans are evil people not even Hitler to be honest, but 27 million Russians died, think about that figure for a minute.
That level of murder cant be glossed over, I hear to many excuses made, I don't blame todays Germans at all for WW2 and I think they are the least likely people to cause anything like it again.
I'm British and we certainly aren't clean as far as War murder and mayhem are concerned, But I'm the first to admit it.
We built an empire on bullying people militarily weaker than ourselves.
Its not hate, its just frustration that I feel sometimes Russians are treated as untermensch even today by all western Nations.
I apologise if you felt offended.
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Better be strategy talk and not mouldy old political stuff in this thread or it'll be moved to the Scrap Yard.
Yeah you shouldn't talk about WW2 in a WW2 game...lol |
So lately I've been finding myself in this position in the mid-game:
After gaining a small to moderate map control advantage with a relatively fast T3, I find myself with two T-34's, an AT Gun, a mortar (usually the 120), a Guard's Rifle Squad (vet 1) and 3 Conscripts (vet 1 or 2), and maybe a stolen MG. My opponent usually has a similar infantry force, and one Panzer IV. It's common for my opponent to also build a PaK at this point.
From here, I'm having trouble pushing my advantage (albeit a slight one). Eventually, a fuel OP that I can't quite manage to take out leads to a Tiger, and no matter how many T34's I've built - it's game over.
I'm pretty sure the answer is taking out the Panzer IV when I have this advantage and push forward to harass his fuel and take out any OPs he has. This would force him to abandon his plans for the Tiger and continue pumping out PIVs. I think my problem is micro-related. I've tried to go for the ram with one T34, flank with the other, and bring up my ZiS. But if he's smart, he's playing conservative with his PIV and just biding his time. So to pull this off, I've had to push too far forward, the flanking T-34 gets fausted and it's all downhill from there. It usually ends with two dead T-34s, while he repairs his PIV.
I've actually had better luck playing conservative and hanging back, but it usually requires my opponent to be somewhat careless (that and Mark Vehicle). So I know this isn't a winning strategy in the long-term (especially not against better players). Any suggested tactics for dealing with this conservative German mid-game?
Or if my micro isn't good enough to micro two or more tanks at a time, should I abandon this strategy and my preferred Commander choices (Combined Arms and Mechanized Support)? Maybe play conservatively and opt for a commander with a heavy call-in (requiring less micro)?
Thanks.
I have exactly this problem, I find because you have to get at least two AT guns the manpower drain means you cant counter his inf even with a shock squad.
because the T-34 can only ram, its actually an expensive unit, I find you cant push anywhere because of faust guaranteed engine critical.
then any German unit makes short work of it, shrek or PIV, PAK etc.
I struggle to find a use for T-34 in any contested game, its cool if the Axis player has terrible micro.
I also find tier 4 useless because again it has no offensive capability. |
They can take on Panzer IVs now. I had one fight between 2 T-34/85s and 2 Panzer IVs (one vet1) today. I had to retreat both Panzer IVs, as the first P4 went down to 10% health pretty quickly. The other Panzer IV could escape with about half health. One T-34/85 was left with full health, the other one with about 10% health. My 2nd Panzer IV arrived 3 seconds later at this combat though, so that both T-34/85 could focus on the first P4 and get out 1 shot more.
I think they are fine now. The infantry shooting capabilities before were too much. Now it´s decent anti tank. More AT power isn´t needed for the vehicle. People shouldn´t expect to get a Panther counter with this unit. After all the Panther is/ should be the hard counter to tanks.
yeah the T34-85 can at least now be somewhat useful, There still isn't that much point in it as far as being a tactical unit ( it wont help you if your not already winning).
But at least its a bit more fun to use.
To Blackart, Yeah its truly frustrating how relic make no attempt to represent these tanks in any realistic way, T34-76 should be on par with PzKpfw IV with KwK40 and its price should reflect that, Its to weak and to cheap.
At normal combat ranges the T34 had the Armour advantage and the PIV had the gun, both could penetrate each others Armour. I've tried to chase down a half health PIV with a T-34 and had it killed while shooting at PIV's rear armour and taking front armour shots.
I would love to see soviets with a hard counter to the panther. In VP 1v1 games it delivers so much damage to the soviet army before its countered that your bled dry even if you manage to kill it, I would love to see the KV-85 as a buildable unit, Tier 4 would be of some use again then. |
I found getting early-ish shocktroops and/or early-ish T70s, stops this in its tracks, As molotovs, grenades & ppshs can start pushing back the LMGs.
Yeah, Never ever engage a LMG without green cover, molotovs and preferably x2 conscripts (or something else).
You need to keep micro up and do what the soviets do best, keep map control; keep on capping. I have walked pasted squads to cap/decap points before and keep the pressure on.
snipers help BUT, require tons of micro and focus. Cuase if you lose the squad, you've lost a huge investment. IMO, i feel x4-6 grens vs sniper(s) are a bad idea as they can simply swarm the conscripts and snipers with either pgrens or Halftrack. I'd consider snipers only when there are x2-3 grens.
I never have superior map control in 1v1 as Soviets, lose or win I always have hardly any map.
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I don't give a crap about the Germans in WW2, they collectively wanted it so they collectively got it. Russia didn't ask to be invaded and the Germans could have surrendered anytime. Nazis won the March 1933 elections, they didn't seize power in Germany. |
I need some help beating this unit I have a number of replays where I have tried stuff like tier one clown cars and guards to defend against light vehicles, but the reaction I get always seems to be more powerful, my clown cars get insta gibbed, by AC's if I go tier one yet my guards aren't able to fight the assault grenadiers, etc.
In this game I tried shocks and cons/tier2 maxim. The rest is irrelevant because all I'm talking about is some way to maintain some kind of map control early.
P.S Not only roubles I also have troubles  |
If you have 3 AT guns by the time your opponent gets the first ostwind out you are doing it wrong I agree. I'm talking about in general when a game goes long and there's a lot of armor or something big like a tiger on the map. I still think 2 AT guns is reasonable if you are down on fuel.
You misunderstand what I am saying about the AT guns. They should always be on the move right behind the infantry. Just select the AT guns as a group and target enemy vehicles manually when they are distracted by your infantry. The damage of 2 AT guns together is sometimes enough to kill a tank before your opponent can react. I find it's much more effective than a single AT gun that can at best just drive your opponent's tank away.
Also, just as something to try... I have successfully used an SU-76 against an Ostwind and won before. You have to be very careful with it though and keep it back so it won't get flanked but it does have a range advantage and enough frontal armor to deal with that 40mm gun. A T34 is probably a better option but just something to think about.
yeah I think we are agreeing here, also about T70, I've even rear armour killed a heavily damaged PIV before while it was fighting a T-34. |
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shocks have excellent grenades and very useful smoke grenades. |
哇哈哈
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