When multiple targets enter an MG's arc there isn't a multiplier that increases the rate of suppression.
There is, problem is it might not be effective due to a combination of factors (late game RA + yellow cover generated by indirect) |
snip
Giving normal fuel price and removing the penalty seem changes in right direction.
For the first part, it's not that i don't disagree on making the TA gain vet as many other units might as well, is to remark that the TA actually has vet applying to the unit. In the hypothetical case of giving it vet, the performance would drop and the xp value of the unit as well. If you want equal performance on top of veterancy you had to: 1.7± the value of the unit, increase base speed/acceleration by 20%, make a new gun profile for it, etc.
Regarding the 2nd, that's not enough. It has to be special in some way, not just a golden skin. TBH at this stage of the game, i would leave as it is. If there were infinite resources and time, i'll gladly like it to be changed but this is not the case.
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And reload speed ? (only for curiosity, i am not entering in the debate )
That's applied through vet -30% at vet 3. |
And generally I do not like that can not vet.
This is your subjective opinion.
For you Tiger ACE is fully vetted unit for me it is not it is simply a different type of Tiger, the same way a OKW Panther is different type of Panther.
This is the part where you are objectively incorrect.
Both share the same gun.
Both share the same hull mg.
They differ on the coaxial. (TA has double DPS but doesn't get access to MG gunner)
TA has +240HP, +7popcap, +15sight.
It has a slight higher vet xp value. The offensive differences against a normal Tiger are applied through it's veterancy ( http://stat.coh2.hu/vetraw.php?filename=tiger_ace_squad_mp)
The Ace has no veterancy, I think it only have 3 stars because game mechanics reasons.
The only units on the games that have no veterancy are non-combat units (opel truck, WM open top halftrack and infrared HT)
First part, read above.
Second part: there are more and it includes "combat" units as well.
Sws HT, Sturm Offizier, Goliath (kappa), (not sure if buildable flak bunker has popcap) Ambulance, USF/UKF Medics, UKF M3 HT not having vet2/3 bonuses (can't remember if they fixed it on WBP or Live)
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I think these 2 posts are relevant
Each weapon has their separate accuracy modifiers vs suppressed/pinned units. Most weapons I've seen have -50% accuracy vs suppressed units and -90% accuracy vs pinned units, which is why pinned/suppressed squads seem more durable. The exact multiplier is particular to each weapon, and I sure hope that all weapons use the same modifiers.
Then, something along the lines of what ZombiFrancis described happens, and squads that have been "forgotten" in a pinned state for too long become easier to hit again. This multiplier is particular to each squad, and I sure hope that this modifier is equal for all squads.
After 10 seconds of being pinned, a units RA is multiplied by 4.
I think tweaking this elements could achieved some desired results. |
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I'll simply say that not every unit is meant to be as effective on every mode. Just take a look at Ele/JT on 1v1 vs their performance on 2v2+.
The whole implementation of the TA was flawed since it's beginning. You "can't" really balance a vet3 tiger with increased HP + better MGs coming for no fuel (CoH2 =/= CoH). The TA design makes it a unit to be used and lost on games which can't endure more than 5-10mins. The mp burden you have is paying for the differential of fuel + veterancy and it's not 75%. It's 25% and actually means 75mp per min. The low mp overall is a result of your popcap.
The TA should had been a 1 time call vet 0 Tiger, with slight HP, sight and MG DPS increase. Command Panzer on top with some abilities focus around support opposed to the first version which had i win abilities such as TWP.
The strong part of the TA is the fuel part, a resource which becomes meaningless on 2v2+, the moment TA becomes available.
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Can just set it to holding ctrl while giving orders sets them in a more spread out formation. Ctrl + click on map ez.
Yeah, i don't care about the execution as much as implementing the concept (which in the current engine seems impossible from what IRC) |
Just delete it then.
You need to calm down with the passive aggressiveness.
Lay out some specific problems you have with the faction, and use the right names please.
+1
Feel free to open a new thread, after cooling down and trying to make in a more constructive were some proper discussion can be held instead of just throwing opinions. If your intention is just the later, open a thread on the lobby section, not in balance. |
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Summon_Smith.exe
Not sure if this applies to support weapons, but isn't there a small time bonification to RA for infantry after been suppressed/pinned. |
While this is offtopic (although this is the direction it had took the thread) i'm gonna "rescue" this 2 posts:
What you seem to not understand is that if you are not competitive player, you need ballanced matches, not ballanced game. When the two players/teams are equal taking into consideration their skills, their armies and their strategies, the match is ballanced and the game feels ballanced. But that has nothing to do with game actually being ballanced. The ballance between respective faction is just one of multiple variables here in a space with single dimension. Which means all the other variables can easily make up for the lack of ballance - for example you can play with players with worse micro if your faction is slightly UP and you feel its all alright.
This is actually the reason why there is so many people arguing on ballance forums - becouse they played in imballanced matches and they find it easier to blame one unimportant variable instead of all the other ones. You can play with a faction that is totally OP against players who will beat you with ease. What many players do right after is crying that their faction is UP.
I think issues of design can be recognized ized by players of all skill levels. The intent and concept of units and factions are completely within the realms of any players' analysis.
That said, actual functionality, ingame balance, and issues of and relating to the meta game are entirely within the realm of the top level players.
There is a complete difference between having a game been balanced and having the game SEEM fair.
People like to bring the whole "korean APM starcraft" player excuse in order to avoid the reality of their own problems. COH2 has to be one of the least micro intensive games there are in the market. I'm not saying you are gonna win an ESL, Relic or coh2org tournament but you can make it to a respectable level with "silver/gold level of APM". You don't have to keep up with the mechanical burden of economy/teching management in the same level most of the other RTS in the genre have.
Finally, to complete Zombies final line:
Depending on what you define "top players", i'll add people who are consciously embedded with how the scene is working. You don't necessarily need to be able to execute it but it's true that it's more likely to know about it if you are at that level.
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