General Information
Register Time: 14 Aug 2013, 23:10 PM
Steam: 76561197970841350
Residence: Finland
Nationality: Finland
Timezone: Europe/Helsinki
Game Name: Cruzz
The only one freshly OP commander from Axis was free Tiger Ace at the end of 2013. But industry was so duckin op too
Assault grens literally wrecked everything so hard at release they had to hotfix them too.
And yes the Land Mattress is quite broken. Ignore the hilarious UI circle on the barrage, it has IDENTICAL scatter to the katyusha in terms of how far back or forward from the target the rockets will hit. It will scatter more to the left and right of the target (angle scatter, 15 for mattress vs 10 for katyusha), but basically used at max range the scatter will be nearly exactly same as it would be on a max range katyusha barrage because the mattress has 30 less range.
In exchange for the slightly larger spread to the left and right and 30 less range, you get better AOE on each rocket and 30 rockets instead of 16, for no tech cost. #BalancedBrits
Their damage per burst is the same (except on the churchill...), but there are big differences in how long their bursts are and how big the delay between them is. To add to the confusion, the churchill croc also features two flamers with the exact same orientation so you only really see one effect.
Overall DPS for the vehicle flamers is more or less:
Crocodile only has a movement penalty on the weaker flamer that you are directly giving attack orders to, and flammenwerfer has no movement penalties either. The other vehicle flamers have 50% accuracy on the move, reducing damage against the model being attacked though otherwise probably not affecting performance.
***KV8 has a higher radius on DOT damage and more DOTS placed, so on a stationary target it might be as good as a croc (Ignoring the main gun).
A few general question on suppression, though:
It's not supposed to be relevant if a shot hits or misses.
It matters for AOE suppression which only seems to apply on hit.
Does that mean every shot fired will actually apply suppression to its target? If that was true, the Vickers should easily be able to suppress on the first burst.
Yes suppression on the targeted squad will be applied whether you hit or miss. And vickers does suppress in one burst if target is not in any kind of cover.
Is that because cover reduces both received damage and suppression equally?
Suppression modifiers for cover is 0.1 for green and 0.5 for light cover
Units also regain suppression even when fired upon and this is multiplied in cover. But don't think we have any kind of real formula for how it works.
1. (if this doesn't take too much time/effort: ) How do different faction HMGs really compare to each other, with respect to:
- DPS (mid-far; near is irrelevant)
- Time-to-suppress
- Time-to-pin
(at vet0/vet3)
Too much effort. Don't even have an accurate calculation for suppression in general, only guesstimates based on testing.
2. When pitting a Vickers vs an MG42 (both garrisoned), on mid/far ranges (assuming both start firing at the same time, and no armour piercing rounds for MG42), the Vickers seems to win (albeit barely). Is there any reason for that, or are we just imagining things?
Vickers has higher DPS between 0 and 41 range, the shorter the range the bigger the difference. Vickers also has better crew guns for ranges 16 to 35. It should win in a garrison at all but the highest range, but there are basically no situations in the game where two MGs will be firing at each other from garrisons at 42+ range so effectively it'll always win.
3. (#Vetgate-related): Do Infantry-based bulletins actually apply correctly to squads? (i.e., considering that most of them are tied to offensive ability)
Bulletins are filter actions, they're constantly being run to check whether they apply or not. So yes they'll work fine.
PS: I think that Firefly tulips deals 60 damage per rocket; far-modifier is 1.0 (not 0.25) => A tulip pair instakills garrisons (as demonstrated by Sexwings)
Correct, I was accidentally applying versus garrison damage twice when generating all the damage in hold values which mostly showed up on the firefly rockets that have a 0.25 damage against garrisons (and on stuff that has such low values of damage I don't bother listing them).
Updated the first post a bit, consolidated some of my other posts from this thread into it, removed outdated stuff and added some minor extra stuff
New stuff (doesn't include stuff that was in my previous posts even if it wasn't in the first post before):
General mechanics:
Friendly fire damage and damage against enemy units are completely different. Tank guns have 50%, flamers 25%, explosive weapons have 0-10% damage to friendlies except pwerfer @ 25%. For example Brit base howitzer damage to friendlies is a whopping 2.5%, so a direct hit from a howitzer (160*0.025*4) deals as much damage to a full squad as a single hit from a kar98k (16*1).
Damage against heavy cover:
50% damage and 50% accuracy for all weapons not in this list:
Weapons which have a notable amount of guaranteed damage to all models in a house due to high aoe far and damage all in hold flag:
Pershing main gun (11),Flame attacks (12-20 damage to everything inside house per burst), Commando/Officer grenade(30), Hammer satchel(50), Guard/Partisan grenade (40 damage), Other grenades(20 damage), Firefly rocket(60), Panzerwerfer(24 damage), Sturmtiger(48), Churchill AVRE(33).
Damage all in hold damage will be applied to every single model inside the structure, in addition to the damage the actual aoe calculation from the weapon does.
Buildings that are on the map at the start (not player built ones) are immune to small_explosive type weapons. All infantry grenades, including Penal Satchels but excluding British Hammer satchel for tommies, fall under this category.
Ability/stats stuff:
USF things:
Easy Eight has no scatter penalty on the move so it will be just as effective against infantry with the main gun standing still as moving
WC51 actually doesn't have a moving accuracy penalty for units inside it, unlike other transports.
It literally requires one single value change in tuning
"ice_kill_percentage": 0.2
would be the current value, ie. 20% of the unit ('s simbox, which is not quite the same as the graphic model you see. But close enough for most units) being over broken ice will make it sink.
1) Offensive bonus are bound to the individual in the moment of reaching another vet level, if it dies the refreshed soldier has no offensive bonus (and in case of brits no defensive either).
2) Soldiers with upgraded weapons usually die last and dish out the main damage with their stronger weapons.
3) So its always a win-win situation to upgrade vet0 squads with special weapons and retreat before the soldier count drops below the number of special weapons in the squad. That way the soldiers with special weapons keep their offensive bonus. Lets try this with an example: While 6 normal conscripts at vet3 will have no offensive bonus if you lost one after another during the game, a squad with 3 PPSHs keeps it offensive bonus at all PPSH soldiers as long you always retreat before dropping below 3 soldiers.
1) Yes
2) Having a slot weapon will not make any difference for survivability
3)Whenever a squad has a slot weapon to distribute, it will be given to the oldest member of the squad, so if a squad still has members with veterancy they will be the ones using slot weapons. Weapon bonuses will still be lost whenever one of those ppsh users is killed and the weapon is passed on to a newly reinforced model.
Received accuracy works fine. Except for Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Tommies (both variants), and Sappers (both variants). Sight is another thing that's applied properly...except for units that have it applied to entity like airborne pathfinders (recon pathfinders on the other hand have it applied to squad and thus keep it).
Ability changes and stuff that always targets squad (reinforcement cost etc) are never affected.
Tommy vet bonuses thus read like this after they've taken a bunch of losses: gain +10 sight in cover at vet1. Start dropping your slot items more at vet3. Give +20% more experience when damaged per level.
Say there's a vet 2 rifle squad with 5 guys. Just shot a Jerry sniper and now is vet 3.
Assuming that all 5 models were reinforced while the squad was vet 2, do all men get vet 1/2/3 bonuses, or do they only get vet 3 bonuses after reaching vet 3?
Haven't seen anything to indicate vet bonuses would be applied retroactively at each level so probably safe to say you only gain the bonuses of the vet level you gain (ie. vet3 bonuses at vet3) and none of the previous ones will be reapplied.
So the squad would have the 0.77 received accuracy of vet2, and all the vet3 bonuses. A lieutenant in the same situation would only have vet3 bonuses because his received accuracy bonus at vet2 is being applied "wrong" and thus goes poof same as the weapon stuff.
Heh. Yeah, you're right. The good news is that there aren't that many effects being applied in a similar fashion, but they do exist. To name the ones that I can think of:
Anvil Heavy Sapper +1 armor && construction rate (repair speed increase will stay)
STG Obersoldaten +25 camo detection radius
And this got me thinking. Does offensive Veterancy (e.g., accuracy) apply correctly?
- Does it stick to the entire squad, and apply to new members/weapons?
- Or does it only apply to the weapons that the squad has at that moment?
So your questions made me actually test things a bit. Funny story...
INFANTRY (NOT INCLUDING TEAM WEAPONS*) WEAPON VETERANCY WILL NOT WORK ON REINFORCED MEMBERS, ONLY ON THE MEMBERS PRESENT WHEN YOU HIT A VETERANCY LEVEL
All those accuracy, cooldown, etc bonuses only apply to the squad members who are alive when you hit a new level of veterancy. Their bonuses will apply to any weapon they use (even if they pick it up after vetting up), but the bonuses will not transfer to a newly reinforced model, even with a slot item type weapon.
As such, for non team weapons, veterancy provides ability changes and received accuracy, but any DPS changes will be gone as soon as every one of the original members of the squad are dead.
How long has this been true? Atleast since October, which was when Relic was last messing around with the veterancy system (trying to remove stuff stacking on abandon etc). But it could very well have been in place for a lot longer.
Why haven't people noticed? The effect is kinda delayed with weapon upgrades because slot items will always be moved to the next oldest member of the squad, so if you're only losing 1 or two models before retreating you will lose DPS very gradually because slot item weapons make up such a large portion of your DPS in this game. And people have certainly noticed how conscripts, the guys with no slot weapons (well, apart from ppsh) scale nowhere later on, as their DPS ends up being the exact same as on minute 1 eventually.
A simple way to check yourself because you won't believe anyway is to get a vet3 pathfinder squad. These guys have +5 range at vet3. Get a guy or two killed from the squad, reinforce, and watch in awe as the reinforced members of the squad wont have the extra range anymore. Or try vet4 obers with all original members killed, never suppression. ETC.
*As for team weapons, the team weapon itself is always alive so veterancy is applied to it just fine. This still means that the groupies in the team weapon are not gaining veterancy bonuses after dying once, but their DPS is generally not an issue anyway.
As a side note there's a couple of squads which have their received accuracy modifiers as apply_to_entity and thus those won't work on reinforced members of the squad either.
Tommies
Sappers (construction rate & received accuracy)
Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Finland
cruzz
.:PSG:. RedxWings
cruzz
.:PSG:. RedxWings
Relic Entertainment
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