The situation is bad as the SUs are clearly OP. The best solution for me is to play ultra-aggressively and try to crush your enemy early. Make good use of grens on the early game, as they are good against a bunch of things. Then rush to either a P4 or any T4 tank (Panther or Brummbar) and try to finish the game. If your enemy is good enough and makes good use of snipers early game, this tactic might fail though.
Then you will have to face the inevitable SUs. It's very, very tricky. For starters, you will need lot of AT power. I don't think that holding on fuel until an Elephant comes out is a viable strategy - at least not on a game you haven't already won. You need to diversify: Paks, PGrens and Panthers. If it's a team game, try to complement your mate(s) armies. Do not just build a blob of PGrens - they might be the best counter to the SU but this will leave you very easy to counter. Then it all depends on what will your enemy will use to kill your infantry. If he goes Shock Troopers, maintain one or more AI tanks (Ostwind, P4 or Brummbar). If he goes KV-8, you *need* to have a Panther. If he goes snipers, a mortar can help blinding then while you attack.
Hold his advances until you see an opening to attack. From the moment you have a solid AT lineup, either accumulate fuel for an Elephant or spam Panthers and try to overwhelm him.
Notice that all these strategies are quite micro intensive: managing a diverse army while blobs of high-damage units are pounding you is tricky. So in any case you will have to outplay your opponent by a fair margin. |
I played it a bit. It's a matter of personal taste, difficult to review it for you. I personally did not like it. The idea is great, but for me there is too much focus on the gunfights, rather on the planning/stealth/execution of the "job". Most missions are nearly impossible to play full stealth (i.e. without alerting the police and starting a massive gunfight).
And the gunfights are a bit shallow IMO. Opponents take several rifle hits to be taken down, and there are infinite waves of them. Each mission you and your team will take down easily over 100 cops, which just looks silly.
There is definitely fun to be had, but it's no "deep" game. "Replayability" is concentrated on getting money and XP for better weapons and skills. But even those feel quite linear, with most of them just making you better at what you already do every game. |
The problem on team games is not only it's range.
It has range + armor + damage + speed
When the Russian side lines up 2-3 of these, the German side is completely denied on tanks.
SUs still reverse at the same speed a (considerably more expensive) Panther advances.
If you happen to flank it, it still endures a *lot* of shots before being killed, and as it reverses really fast, it will often escape danger safely. Combine this with the fact that it's relatively cheap, and you have an unstoppable spam of these things on team games. Elephants are doctrinal, much, much more expensive and come at the very late game.
The only real counter to SUs is a blob of PGrens w/ Panzerschreks. But if you do this, you basically make the life of the soviet player simple, as all he needs to counter now is a single type of unit - solved with 2 snipers or 1 KV-8.
@Nullist: you might be right, I actually overlooked this fix from the patch notes. I will test some more in-game. If this is fixed, then the Pak might become a viable SU counter, which helps a lot - but I still think that it denying every German tank on the field is wrong. |
It's still pretty OP and broken. It might affect 1v1s less, but team games are still a total SUfest. It still denies every single German tank from the battlefield (aside from the Elephant) at the price of a P4. I keep seeing team games being won the moment the Russian side starts pumping these things out - and I see this both when I play as German or Soviet.
Also, there is still what I consider the broken behavior of it sniping infantry and, the worst, pak guns. I understand that balance is being done incrementally, from early to late-game, but I think Relic should hurry up on a solution for this. Team matches are getting dull and boring, from either side. |
any idea to what to do with soviet now after the patch?
Survive until you can bring the still broken SU-85?
And yes, I do play as Russians as well.
On team games, I'm starting with 1-2 conscripts, 0-1 M3 (depends on how many grens they have), and 2 snipers. Germans have a lot of problems with snipers until they can field scout cars. And the fact that you will force him to make a scout car kinda slows him down a bit.
My team mate goes T2 with ATs and mortars for harassment.
Mid-game is variable, but trying not to spend much fuel. Guards or T2+AT to keep scout cars in check. Survive the German T3 if he goes for it and get a SU-85 as fast as you can.
If you get to a point where you have 2 SU-85s, 2 snipers and 1-2 other inf squads... it's pretty much GG.
EDIT: And yeah, I haven't yet started using the T34, as I think the SU-85 is still ridiculous OP and I find it hard not to rush for it. But I guess that on team games you can have each player building a type of tank (one goes for fast T34 and the other aims for the SU-85). |
As someone who played vCoH extensively, this statement is so ridiculous it makes me seriously question what on earth you were doing in vCoH if you felt this way. Rifles were gods walking the earth compared to conscripts (and compared to volks vs conscripts compared to grenadiers), and the vCoH MGs were worse in every single way than the current CoH2 ones (smaller arc, smaller squad size, took more damage, less suppression).
You can't analyze the unit stats by itself and just compare the vCoH version to the CoH2. There is a context, established by the other units in play.
The MGs in vCoH might be worse, but if an US player went T1, his *only* option against them was flank. I've seen several times really strong Wehr play that consisted of a 3xMGs start. In CoH2, if you spam MGs you will be rolled over by a single M3 w/ flamer, or a sniper, or a mortar.
Yes, the CoH2 MG is strong, but the Russian side is packed with hard counters to it.
The German player is forced to diversify his army - thus making the MG *by itself* less viable than in vCoH. |
I agree with a few points but I *strongly* disagree that the German MG is OP and/or has no counters.
M3s w/ flamers, snipers and mortars are all hard counters against the MG. And notice that these counters are spread between Russian T1 and T2 - so there's always a viable option.
In fact, as someone who played vCoH extensively I think that the MG42 is much less viable in CoH2, exactly due to the number of hard counters for it. In vCoH the US faction had no counter for the MG on T1, other than flank it. In CoH2 the German player pretty much has to build at least one Grenadier, otherwise gets owned by a single M3. |
NEVER! This thing killed 3v3 and 4v4 team games in vCOH cuz it was impossible to find any team to play against. So if wanted to play 3v3 or 4v4 game with your friends, you have to go for custom game and then wait and pray till or ever any other random 3 or 4 people will fight. This killed vCOH for me and my friends cuz it took many many minutes to play a game (and after lets say 20 minutes of waiting they got owned and quit in 10 minutes).
Consider how long does it take to find enemy even in 2v2 right now. Separating team and nonteam games in COH2 (game with very low active players) will lead to fast end of teamgames in general.
Lets compare it with SC2, theres no arranged vs non arranged ladders and the game is still fun to play everytime with almost no waiting time between matches. Why is it so?
+1
vCoH has separated arranged team automatch and it's not good at all. It totally killed team automatch there. Also, it's impossible to team up with a single team mate and play a 3v3 or 4v4, with random players filling up the slots.
I think arranged teams work well when you have a huge player base like in Starcraft. For CoH, I would keep the automatch system simple, dividing the playerbase the least possible. |
Thing is, focus sight increases its sight range, not its actual range. Thus if it reverses without focus sight it will still have the same range, just not its own spotter. But take into consideration that it will be reversing into friendly territory, thus it will 9/10 times still have vision of the attacking tank provided by either friendly infantry, or control points. I really dont know how big the effect will be, but I think the lol-reversing is still gonna be a problem.
My only hope is that the time it takes to de-activate the focus sight will give enough time for the flanking tank to get behind it.
Another good point brought up by nullist is that kv-8's are now gonna be almost un-faustable(like they were even faustable to begin with).
Good point, I hadn't thought of the friendly units still providing LOS. They will still have to deactivate it though, which at least puts more of a micro burden on it. But totally agreed that it will need to be further nerfed in the future.
As for the KV-8, not being able to faust it does not concern me, as that was almost always a suicide tactic anyways. My main concern with the KV-8 is that more often than not it completely kills a PGren squad with a single FT burst, even if the squad retreats immediately. Not being able to retreat upon meeting a hard counter is a serious problem that kinda breaks CoH's original concepts. |
I think the rationale behind the SU-85 having to de-activate focus sight to escape is that it no longer can escape whilst outranging the pursuing tank. It was a really broken side effect of the ability + the SU speed: they could do an "offensive retreat" where they would shoot at a Panther while avoiding being shot at. Now the Russian player has to choose between staying and firing, or simply retreating without the extra range.
This alone probably won't be enough to fully balance the unit and I'm pretty sure that the SU-85 will still get more nerfs in the future. As already mentioned, balancing is an iterative process. I just hope that it happens soon or I'm afraid the game starts losing players.
Aside from balancing, the issue where SU-85s snipes infantry and pak guns way too often is a broken behavior that needs fixing. |