Profile of wooof

its more like 3x, but lowering dps will only make units survive longer, which seems to be what noise is complaining about. if anything, id like to see dps on single shot weapons to go up

were talking about a hypothetical situation where you dont lose your gun/engine when you ram, remember? you want to let your tank almost die before you stun the tiger? or would it be smarter to stun the tiger to prevent it from shooting?

if were talking about ram the way it is now and you ram with less than half hp, it would die in 1 shot if it survives the ram. youd have to ram at more than 50% hp to die in 2 shots. i think you might be confusing yourself

i never said you will kill the panther in 8 seconds. but thats enough time to get around it and block its path, which buys you more time to shoot its rear armor.

also i dont follow your logic at all. zis does "nothing" against tigers/panthers, so use t34s which do less damage and have less than half the pen? zis has the same penetration as the su85 and is2. they all have 170 pen, which is the highest for any soviet unit.

going by your logic, shocktroopers should steamroll german infantry and completely invalidate them? if so, there wouldnt be a 15page discussion on it and the general consensus that shocks are too good. even more so, they should when they cost 1cp, doctrinally locked and cost 440mp compared to a t2 ost unit that are available to all commanders at 360mp. but no, even I think that is absurd and needs to be toned down.

isnt that exactly what shocks are doing right now? hence the 15 page discussion. besides, the issue with shocks right now is the timing, not the unit. they dont "cost" 1cp, you can just spam them at 1 cp. that comes much sooner than t2 for germans. the only thing germans have to stop them in t1 is mgs, which are also unreliable because shocks have smoke.

similarly for penal battalion, they cost 50% more than conscripts, retain the same armour and hp, yet are not mowing down grenadiers like no tomorrow. that is accceptable, but pgrens are not, they must cut down all rifle infantry?

penals have more than double the dps of conscript squads at all ranges. also, penals are long range infantry and have better dps than pgrens at any range over 20m. sit back in cover and watch the germans die.

while i may have failed to factor in the drop in dps, it happens for all infantry squads. take guards for example, ptrs do nothing and guards already have mediocre dps, for every guardsmen that dies, dps is also cut. lose half of the guards squad, and they cant even take on tanks and do negligible damage to infantry, so pgrens arent the only unit suffering from this 'phenomenon'.

yes, every squads dps goes down when units die, but guards have 6 men, 4 with AI weapons. that means they have twice as many entities with 80 hp and 1.5 armor that can die before their dps is 0. that lets guards fight twice as long. on top of that, if the guards have DPs, those 2 guys account for roughly 2/3 of the guards dps. so if pgrens lose 2 men, they have 0 dps, when guards lose 2 men, theyre at 2/3 dps. thats a big difference.

this is the real problem, once they achieve that moving blob of dps, there is no soviet infantry that can take them on. they will dish out so much damage on all sorts of soviet infantry. bring out tanks and you can turn a couple of them into AT squads and still walk all over soviet lines, even more so when tanks are penalized for moving and shooting.

if you go t1, you have snipers. if you go t2, maxims. if theyre blobbing, you can also get a mortar, or just place mices. pgrens are very expensive to reinforce, take advantage of that. if you only want to build cons and guards, i can see why youd have problems, so change your build. i dont see why have snipers or maxims opens you up to ostwind/p4 rush. you have guards, if you went t2, build a zis. then you can even barrage that blob of pgrens as it charges.

considering that pgrens cost 50% more than grens, but have the same hp and armor, the only reason theyre worth the cost is because of their dps. so why should a conscript be able to beat pgrens? even if you take ppsh, theyre still much cheaper. pgrens are the strongest german infantry, cons are the cheapest soviet infantry and t0. thats like complaining that grens cant beat shocks.

as for your analysis of pgren dps, you failed to factor in the drop in dps when entities die. they have pretty good dps when its a 4 man schreck squad. lose 1 man and your dps is now cut in half. 1 more and dps is essentially 0, excluding very rare schreck hits. youre also risking dropping schrecks at that point, which is a big hit to german munitions and is also deadly in the hands of 6 man soviet squads.

without taking the schreck upgrade, pgrens have the same weakness as penals/shocks/agrens. they have no AT. pgrens are either AI or AT, but not both at the same time.