Profile of Curity

@The Riddler: Touche. I was wrong about India and Brazil being Security Council members.
Nonetheless, they are economic and potilitical dominators in their respective region.

Have you seen the justifications given in council by these abstaining states?
If I lived close to you, Id invite you over for popcorn and beer to watch them.

@Morgengrad: Stalingrad, in terms of suffering, was on the part of the civilian population caught in the siege and the Germans encircled within the city. This was a turning point in the war where Soviet strategy finally brought to bear overwhelming force and composition in order to annihilate th3 spearhead of German advance in the SE. Soviet troops on the periphery of the city where well supplied, wheras the Germans, literally, died of exposure and hunger.This particular engagement shouldmhwve been represented differently, from a Soviet perspective, BUT Order 227 was still in force, and retreating, especially with such a mass of Sov forces in the backlines all around the perimeter of the city, would have been tantamount to suicide because you WOULD be caught.

Well the well-known numbers are like 4,5% of the arrested deserters were executed. That's total. Looks a bit different from what I've seen ingame.

if you don't like the game you can leave

multiplayer isn't fucked up, neither is singeleplayer.

singleplayer was fun

And here we go again, just right I was about to like you...

Hi Curity, thanks for your perspective. I do have a question for you.


This is the sort of thing that people are criticizing the Russian posters for saying. On what basis are you saying that troops didn't retreat? How do you know that's true?

The Polygon article linked earlier in this thread asked David Stone, a professional historian of Soviet military history who examines documentary evidence for a living and doesn't base his thoughts on Enemy at the Gates.


As far as I am aware, you are not a professional military historian of the Soviet Union, so when you tell me that Soviet soldiers didn't retreat, I have good reason to believe that you were taught an inaccurate, nationalistic version of your own history in school.

This isn't to say that Relic was entirely accurate.



As a final comment, I do agree with the Russian posters that the CoH2 campaign did not commonly make the player feel "heroic." It's mostly just depressing, really. So while the campaign could have certainly been a lot better than it was, I don't think it's as inaccurate as people are saying. Also, Curity, the efforts of Russians in signing petitions and such are unlikely to do much of anything. CoH2 is a video game, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Writing negative reviews and telling other Russians not to buy it is the most that you can do.

I have to declare that I mean no offense to anyone.
Because some of the things that follow this statement are questionable.

At first I have to tell you that I'm a history teacher at school. So I guess I've earned my right to have a professional opinion on the subject. And as you can see I'm not 'zealous' or something.

Now let's get to the debating part.
If we're going to speak about proofs, I can give only the documentary sources that are in Russian. That would take a freaking lot of time to translate them to the English language. But they DO exist.

However there are NO documentary proofs on those 'evil NKVD machinegunner teams' ever existed on the battlefield. The reality is about them being guarding the army's supply lines from deserters and traitors. The really sick joke is that's said in the Order .227 that Relics are using as a source.

Btw, I've spotted a broken point there in the English version of the text.
It's here, in 2.b part. Russian words 'в непосредственном тылу' actually mean the 'at the supply lines'. It surely looks like being translated w/ a Google translator thing.
That has certain flaws.

So is the 'Scorched Earth' part, where Soviets are burning civil houses and their own troops. That wasn't right according to the Order. 428 that:
1. Was released after the game situation takes place (it's 17 Nov 1941);
2. Tells to make diversions deep in the Nazi occupied territories, BEHIND the enemy lines. It's also mentioned there to evacuate all the civilians before the diversion starts.
Ingame situation breaks every documentary evidence, but strongly resembles the Nazi actions on their all-out retreat from USSR in 1943/44.

So the people are just raging about the Nazi crimes blamed on Soviet soldiers.

@Curity: I have one more argument for you to counter, good sir

I saw it being mentioned several times that the campaign only demonizes the NKVD and state institution, but it actually GLORIFIES and HONORS the bravery and sacrifice of the common soviet soldier. At least that's the impression many western players will have when playing this, Russians may define heros differently.

But think about it: You are worried about Russia's reputation, I assume? Consider this: People will rather associate today's common russians with the common soldiers shown in the game. They will most likely not associate them with the NKVD which is gone today. The common soldiers in the game which represent common citizens of soviet states are shown in a POSITIVE way.

You guys are fighting a game that will spread a better image of common soviet soldiers in the west. Currently the West has a rather negative image of them. This could finally change! And yet you are trying to impede this game's success. You fight the game that will redeem soviet soldiers. Soviet soldiers represent common citizens of your states. I think you're wounding yourselves here....

Eh, I'm not very good at quoting myself, really.
Though here we go, an explanation.

Russians don't really care what other countries think of Russians. That's because mostly outsiders don't know a hint on what Russia is like.
As Russia can be all-effective when it comes to basic trades Russians don't really care how to interact w/ the rest of the world.

We have our own traditions of honoring heroes. Russian heroes may look a bit overpriced and not-so-real to western thoughts, but, well, your people weren't under those conditions. Your nations simply lack the necessary experience of all-out extermination war to understand what people actually are able to do.

All represented soldiers ingame are not like the real ones back in WWII. They're more like westerners, dressed in fancy uniform, you see?

'No retreat, No surrender, No mercy' wasn't just a motto that random 'evil NKVD guys' were shouting in loudspeakers. There were no machine gunner teams behind the lines to shoot the retreating forces. Wanna know why? Because troops simply didn't retreat.
That's just a dirty cliche, popularized with 'Enemy at the Gates' movie.

Summarizing all I've said:
We're okay with history debates and everything. We admit there were some warcrimes the opponent can prove. And we have some experience in criticizing lies as here in Russia it's an everyday matter.

This game exploits almost all the dirty cliches that are existent to the moment. The list goes too high to mention everything, just the most pressing matters:
1. 'Human wave doctrine'
2. 'The lack of munitions and weapons' LOL the way Relics are picturing this particular BS is amazing. There's 1 rifle for three people for the squad of conscripts
3. 'Evil NKVD eliminating retreating soldiers'
4. 'Evil NKVD eliminating soldiers for saving the officer'. Just for you to know, the real, documentary proven stories tell there's a reward on that. Including a rank-up at times.
5. 'Evil russians eliminating surrendering germans'. LOL If that's like that where did the Soviets get 1,3m POVs just after the Stalingrad battle?

I say again, everything can still be solved by making a 'fictionalized story' disclaimer before the campaign start and the official regretting message from the developers. Like, 'we've had no idea of what really happened there and are asking to forgive us for the certain story exaggerations'.

Hello there, dudes and dudettes.
I'd like to put in a few words to clarify the russian vision on the subject.
'Warning - wall of text inbound!'

'It is just a game, so what now?'.
Well, if you put it that a way 'Mein Kampf' is just a book. Nazi swastika is just a picture. Goebbels' speeches were well-thought and great [from the nationalism point].
Do I have to remind you why that's all banned?
Videogames now are a whole new start for the mass media. As a school teacher back in Russia I can tell that lots of people actually do believe what they get from games.
Not just <18 kids, you see.

'The story is fictional, so there is no need to be bold w/ it.'
Tell that to the Relics, kk? They were approached at least a dozen times with one simple idea - make a disclaimer before the campaign starts. The one that's like 'story is fictional and may be utterly offensive to you. Do you wish to continue?'

But devs keep saying that the story is all authentic. And it's so much rage because of the Relics' behavior, see?

Conflict could be solved before russians go demand devs' heads, blame Relics on all the shitstorm now.

But the story is all true! It really was like that, I've read that in a book!
Well I'd like to see those books. Not every book is correct on making an image on something, right?
If you want to do a game on such a big topic go ask historians to do a documentary research. And you better criticize the sources before getting them into use, as there are lots of lies about the WWII.

Relics 'd told that the plot is based on Vasily Grossman's books. Funny stuff is his books have a little common with the plot, and these plot parts are not what the game is hated for.

CoH 2 game is a multiplayer one. Singleplayer is just an addon that shouldn't be really important to the player anyway.
Well, it was well said before so I'm going to quote that part from here:
"Many people say CoH2 isn't a really SP-oriented game, well, maybe that's right. I don't really care for a single simple reason: CoH2 is a single product that has both multiplayer and singleplayer. And as far as it does, the multiplayer can't be judged apart from sp campaign.

Let's get some little illustration here.
Think of an ordinary healthy man that lives his life. He's engaged in all sorts of stuff here and there, he has awesome looks and pretty epic tell-a-tale skills. That's CoH1.

Now cripple that guy! Take away the left hand from the poor thing. He's still able to perform most of the one-handed operations, right? In fact, that man can be great at doing some things.
But he's still handicapped."

Kids are playing a 18+ game? Blame the parents!
Well you surely have an interesting point over there. I'd ask a few things though.
1. Is there a country where this problem is completely solved? I mean, the unauthorized access to a random 18+ game/film/whatever by inadults? No laughs, go get me an example.
No example? Hehe, that's my point there.
2. It's not about the kids only. 18 years isn't an age most people think for themselves, that's why most really caring countries have the adult status start from 21 y.o.

Well, I don't think russians were as bad as nazis back there in WWII. But there warcrimes soviets have to admit! Otherwise I'll be crying out loud on how nationalists are whitening the history!
War is war and it never changes, yes.
Though as I remember game's called 'Company of Heroes', right?

It's a bit hard for Russian to understand how those sick bastards and cowards can be ever related to 'Heroes'. We have a standard on that, you know.
Our heroes may look like Ultramarines to you, but, well, that's a Russian tradition. Offending traditions w/ 'bittersweet endings' and 'wartime truth' is never good.

Aaaand there's more to it.
You're talking of truth and warcrimes? Do I have to remind how other allies treated Germans back in the War? Do I really have to put in pictures and docs on american POV camps and mass murders?

Find me an example of that in CoH. Oh, there is nothing?
And you can't still get why Russians are so pissed off?

But come on, it's just nationalism, yeah. /sm

Well, anyway, it's just a bunch of people arguing. Mindless indoctrinated patriots bashing the Metacritic and Gamestop rankings won't change anything.

First of all, if you say that - you know nothing of Russia or other CIS countries.
1. There is a real storm coming in mass media. People are not rioting the streets yet, but they surely do demands to ban the game from Russia at least. TV and news portals are discussing the topic hard. Two petitions were started (here and here).
Do I have to say that there's a refund option in Steam? Imagine what Relics are going to get if the game is banned and people demand a refund. They've sold most of the copies in CIS and Germany.
2. If devs are not to cooperate and finally do something they're actually supporting the oppressing of freedom of speech in Russia. Why is that so bad?
Because when it comes to matters like that Russians don't care ab/ freedoms. They're maximalists at heart. So they gladly forgive the FOS rights and everything to get rid of the game and it's considered propaganda.

I hope that helps you all folks to understand the situation better.