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Your concern about t4 as a whole not being worth it might be right since the panther is the most useful unit you get out of it. You also prettymuch have to go t2 if you are skipping t3 which is not so bad.
I think panthers are in a pretty good spot though. In most cases they wreck t34s and anything T3. They even can take on soviet heavy armor at the moment. Their speed and armor combined make it a very survivable unit that can collect veterancy and get that much better. They are an excellent late game unit.
Bottom line if your opponent goes t3 consider getting panthers. |
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From a soviet player's perspective, I find my impact with a sniper is lessened if my opponent has good reinforcement support such as a half track or a command bunker. That way, my sniper forces less retreats and just drains manpower very slowly. Eventually I will have to move since a sniper who is in one spot for too long is a dead sniper.
Other than that, don't let a sniper get sprint. It can be nasty. |
Thanks for the feedback bigchunk1.
We delayed on adjusting heavy tanks purposefully. They are late game units which will be impacted by early to mid game changes. So until we felt the early-mid game was in a good state, we held off on changes to the late game.
That said, we have adjustments in the pipeline which we feel pretty good about.
It makes sense to do things that way. Thanks for the reply. |
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I have been a long time relic fan but what are you guys thinking here?
An IS-2 costs 680 manpower and 300 fuel. That's almost enough for 2 panthers and more than enough for 2 panzer 4s. That would be perfectly fine if the tank didn't perform so poorly. It is slow and has a slow turning turret, understandable. Its armor feels like paper and does not penetrate all that well considering it is a heavy tank, now that I don't understand.
A tiger costs 250 fuel, 50 less fuel than an IS-2... what? Just because it's German? I'm also pretty sure than an IS-2 will lose in a straight fight with a Tiger. At LEAST put them on equal footing. The only historical disadvantages I have read about the IS-2 compared to the Tiger was that it was difficult to reload the main gun and that the tank crews weren't as well trained. It did however carry a 122mm cannon, which is more than a match for any opposing German armor even at long range.
An IS-2 can't take a panther head on either, I sort of understand that since a panther is a dedicated anti tank, but this is a 300 fuel doctrinal tank we are talking about here.
I see what you are trying to do. A tiger is better against armor but only fairly effective against infantry. As opposed to an IS-2 which is better against infantry and only moderately effective against armor. I don't think this balancing works. IS-2s only come out late game where armor superiority takes priority over infantry superiority. The issue is compounded by the fact that IS-2s are also more expensive.
It's a somewhat similar situation with ISU-152s. Why are they more expensive than elephant tanks? Why can they not stand toe to toe in 1v1s with them? ISU-152s are also more expensive. Can anyone explain to me how that is balanced?
I usually play medium tank games but I tried to switch it up and was horribly disappointed. Right now getting soviet heavy armor is more for bragging about how much further ahead you are than it is about actually trying to win. |
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you know, that's a good point about what stage in the war multiplayer is in. If German infantry has the STG-44, the soviet troops should not be treated as the traditional Stalingrad cannon fodder from enemy at the gates. A single German soldier was considered better still, inflicting more casualties than a soviet one, but it was much less pronounced in 1944.
I never was a fan of the KV-8 (KV-1 with a flamethrower), T-34-85 and guards troops all being doctrinal units. At this stage in the war these units were quite common in the red army. I sort of wish they made penal battalions the doctrinal units and put guards on the special rifle command.
Pretty well written post and with thematic inspiration. I agree with most everything. |
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And as anti-air personnel. The army had a lot of support roles to fill though so this is not so unbelievable. |
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I have seen this happen to me, to my amazement, multiple times in a single game. It was the single reason why I lost that game.
I would have been mad if I could stop myself from laughing. I saved the replay, but it is from a previous patch. |
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Snipers, Flamethrower Battalions, Machine guns, T70s, Shock troopers.
Guards do surprisingly well against them because their anti-tank rifles make them dance.
Really, the only unit that gets completely wrecked by them is conscripts... and AT guns.
If they upgrade panzershreks that means they are that much worse against infantry. Can't have both. |
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Here's my usual build order for t2:
3 conscripts -> Field Hospital -> T2 -> 2 maxim -> AT grenades -> 1 mortar or AT gun
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3 conscripts -> T2 -> 2 maxim -> Field Hospital -> AT grenades -> 1 mortar or AT gun
T2 seems to work well with T3 so consider getting a T70 or t34 shortly after doing this.
Getting T2 right from the start I find is never a good idea. The building costs 200 manpower, nearly the equivalent of a squad. It also takes a long time to build. That time could be spent capping which is vital in the beginning since the map is up for grabs. T2 units also aren't the best at mobile combat, which is important in the beginning as well.
Early mortars don't work. Mortars are better for breaking formations of units and such things don't exist in the early game.
I don't like molotovs. Maybe I am wrong but I don't like how they depend so much on your opponent making a mistake. |
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I use penal battalions, but I don't have a 'penal battalion strategy'. I think that they are too expensive to spam given their reinforcement cost and lack of anti-tank options. I have however worked them into my standard T1 build.
Start with 2-3 conscripts -> T1 -> M3/flamethrower engineers -> Sniper -> Penal Battalion
I disagree about the flamethrower. It has its uses. German infantry is armored and flamethrower damage ignores armor. This means close in squads like the panzer grenadiers can be fought by penal battalions. I agree you should not use them as a spearhead attacker, that's what conscripts are for. I like to use them as units to fill out your formation and keep aggressive infantry spammers at arms length. They also are useful as side cappers who can 1v1 nearly any German squad.
They are good at what they do. I tried to replace them with shock troops and it didn't work as well. |
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