Profile of ace4sure

Imho the Panther is the most cost ineffective unit in thise game. It's either way to expensive or its performance simply is not enough for the cost.

As I see it there are 2 types of tank destroyers: turreted (M36 Jackson, Panther, T34-85) and straight guns (SU85, JgPz4, Elefant, JgTiger).
The turreted qenerally lacking DPS compared to the straight guns but have good mobility with their turret.
Looking at the Jackson really trouble german heavy tanks at 350/125 cost, I don't see the Panther beeing the same threat it should be for its cost. Of course the Panther has much more armor and HP and is meant to poke into the battlefield while Jackson needs to be more backlining, BUT I don't see why the Panther is sooo much more expensive with 490/175.
The same goes for the comparison with the T34-85. The Panther has the better gun and armor and that's it. Why this extremly high price?
I don't see it fit that way. With its current stats the Panther should cost max 145 to 150 fuel. If it should stay in the 170 fuel region it needs more damage (240) and more HP (960) from the start.
Regarding the german attitude with tanks, quality over quantity, I would perfer the second approach to justify its high cost by increasing its battlefield performance.

Regards
ace

Hi there.

Since the last big patch this thing bothers me so hard, I can NOT imagine none else feels the same: your (Panzer-)Grenadier suqad suddenly disappears from your unit bar -> Soviet TM 35 mine ate them!
Right now you have to be lucky if your squad survives the blast not vice versa.

Considering the very low cost of 30 munitions for this mine indicates more of an support tool for area denial and crippeling vehicles/tanks not for whiping whole squads, which is abused quite heavily right now from what I have seen.

As the person I am I did a little research on this subject and started digging the numbers.
My result: the TM 35 mine is clearly overpowered statwise.

For explosive weapons 4 stats are important in this case:
1. Damage
2. Blast radius
3. Damage modifier for blast zones (near / far)
4. Accuracy modifier for blast zones (near / far)

As Relic told us the way damage is dealt within an explosive blast have been changed in an update.

Before the update it was RNG (accuarcy varying) if an entity get damaged by a blast at the outer area of a blast radius and if so damage was high.
Now there is no RNG (accuarcy 500% fix) at outer blast radius, damage is always dealt but lower.

TM 35:
1. 200
2. 5
3. 100% / 100%
4. 500% / 500%

So the soviet mine does always 200 damage at a radius of 5 -> Complete DEAD ZONE! (i may remind you all infantry has 80 hitpoints).

What this numbers mean is best shown by referencing some other explosive weapons.

Ostheer anti personal mine:
1. 40
2. 5
3. 100% / 100%
4. 500% / 500%

So it has the same blast radius as the TM 35 and also does full damage inside the complete radius, but it only deals 40 damage (I may remind you all infantry has 80 hitpoints).

Another example...

Ostheer leFH 18:
1. 200
2. 7.5
3. 100% / 15%
4. 500% / 500%

You see the differnce? It has the same damage as the TM 35 mine and an even bigger blast radius but it only deals 15% damage to the outer area of the blast radius. So the damage scales down the more away from the center of the blast.

To me it looks like the Soviet TM 35 is missing this down scaling (forgotton? overseen? intended???).
In the combination with the cheap cost and availabilty right from the start, this weapong is a real abusive problem and should be patched ASAP!

Any word form Relic (hello Pq ) on this subject would be much appreciated.

regards
ace

I just checked the numbers again.
Yeah it seems right that the Luger compensates its bad accuracy with its faster firing rate, mainly because of no winddown.

That just enforces my experience even more: its a really viable unit and by no means inferior to a regular Grenadier squad. Sure no Panzerfaust and no Rifle Grenade but better survivabilty and awesome support abilities.

Regards
ace

Some people defintly should have a break in these forums. I know this site is quite liberal about member postings but the personal insulting starts to be damaging to this community.

@anfsim
I never said ecffective flanking makes ifantry spammable. but if basic infantry is a cost effective way to fight anything that enforces spamming. coh1 was be design different here. it worked fine. e.g. rifles or grens were much more combat efficient by default. in coh2 cons and grens only provide moderare damage (and lets not talk about the lmg42 now). their focus is as I much more about movability, field presence, more utility rather than damage. if you wanna execute a hurting infantry flank do it with the right tools. Pgrens, Shocks, Penals (at best supported by basic infantry) should do for a punishing execution. Problem is they don't work very effienct neither. and neither does things like mortars or scout cars. and that's the main issuse in my eyes.

maybe durability of weapon teams in general is to high. As suggestion: back to 3 men for german teams, but also down to 4 men for soviet teams. but i don't know if that would be the solution. needs testing. we gonna see what relics feels is fitting.

I just wanna underline you won't be able to flank with basic infantry in coh2 like it used to be with coh1 rifle squads. And I prefer the coh2 design approach for said reason -> more deversified weapons. i mean those weapons were used in war for a reason. and remember the first coh2 tournaments? the mass cons/grens gameplay was boring as hell!

if you dont like it i am afraid you better stick with coh1.

regards
ace

pretty quiet here now...

i agree with you on the patch progression so far. as i said before it feels very professional and straight forward. I also much appriciate pq's and all other devs effort to keep this process as transparent as possible.

and as you i am also looking forward to the development of the game once the basic elements are straightend and balanced out and more facettes are brought to the game by the commanders. like i said in a different thread: the design and implementation of coh2 from what i have seen so far looks very promising to me that this gonna happen quite fluidly.

on topic i just want point out that relic is working on a patch regarding all weapon teams and to me thats the completely right approach.

i also feel that the mg42 is too dominant right now but as i see it and as i already wrote i dont feel its a problem to nail only on this weapon even if the supression might be heavy not speaking of that stupid Bulletin. but the problem is not that you get instantly killed by the mg42 (like by a KV-8). the problem is to counter the mg42 and since its the first weapon team that hits the field the issue starts to shine here.

flanking as s counter is pretty unrewarding in general with regular infantry not only vs the mg42. as already noted thats a intended design decision by relic cause flanking in coh1 is more deadly than anything. though i think that nosin nagant and the kar98k could be a little more effective, i like it cause it enforces counter units instead of playing with 5 to 6 Conscripts/Grenadiers and to me thats always a good thing.

the problem is that the counters arn't that effective neither.
Mortars, scout cars, CC infantry, snipers for example can't pressure enough on enemy team weapons in my eyes.

So either look at those counter units or look at weapon teams in general instead if hammering on the mg42 alone. and thats what relic is doing and i am looking forward to what they come up with.

regards
ace