Cant believe people find the 120mm underwhelming. It's an absolute beast imo.
thats the reason why i made this thread. i have been using it wrong and people have taught me stuff here. |
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maybe a damage fall off might fix squad wipes? or place a limit to the maximum damage it can do. |
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so basically, the thing with 120mm is that its vet ability is the key to using it to full effect, while its regular rounds are very prone to missing.
while the 82mm has the same vet ability and better accuracy for lower range but comes with a much lower cost.
shall try it out more often with the vet ability then. |
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i think they could be a little faster to move off. apart from that, i think they are okay.
more importantly, i would feel that the t34/85 is somewhat lacking. for its cost of 360/120 for a single vehicle the amount of cp needed, these guys are expected to take on panthers/tigers yet are lacking the proper firepower to do, especially against the tiger.
in fact, i think tank combat is quite screwed when heavy tanks are in play. rear armour should be paper thin, even a t34/76 should have 100% penetration to the rear armour of a tiger. similarly for p4 against is2. exposing your rear to the enemy is a serious showcase of tactical failure and should be punished for it. likewise, elefants and isu152 as well. |
Expensive, inaccurate and overnerfed. Better way is steal some Ost. mortar.
that is what i thought too, ost mortar seems so much more effective, even much more consistent of hitting rifle infantry with their good rate of fire and accuracy. really devastates guards, penal and conscripts combo.
what does barrage actually do? increase rate of fire? how is it different from attack ground? |
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ever since the viability of t34/85s, i have been trying out the guards commander with the 120mm and t34/85.
but my recent experience with it led me to realize that i am extremely inefficient with the 120mm. while it has an impressive animation and explosion impact, i can never use this thing to kill anything.
it seems that the 120mm is very slow and inaccurate compared to its lighter german cousin, apparently it is actually possible to push up mortar teams to counter the 120mm because they cannot output the same amount of accurate fire as the 84mm.
more often than not, 120mm shells miss by a mile, though compensated by having a slightly longer range. its setup and traverse is also slow as hell. while having a much bigger explosive impact, its lethality is not all that different from regular mortars and still need close/direct hits to kill. lastly, it has a hefty price cost.
so before i go on a rant on balance forums about its doctrinally locked, cost 400mp and yet loses to a 240mp, ubiquitous 84mm, i like think im the problem 1st such as the lack of skill and what not.
how do i actually use this to its best? |
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tiger ace is shit, it has to go. tiger dont need all that extra firepower and durability. i would sacrifice my entire army for a nuke that ends the game in my win.
yet now its free, has a ton of armour and hp and a very powerful gun. playing against this commander is a bloody time bomb, exceed the time limit and you lose the game. this commander just forces the soviet player to take unnecessary risks and punishes the slow and methodical player who could have been more skilled, successfully holding the line despite casualties. it would have ended up in a close soviet victory, but because of tiger ace, it turns the game into a faceroll german victory, all because he manages to amass command points, not a single tactical or strategical brilliance. |
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i just feel their high armour makes them pretty immune to small arms fire. resulting in focus fire being quite ineffective against them, making them the prime flanking force. then their smoke nades and grenades make them even more effective at closing in.
1 of them, they arent much of a problem, when 3 of them, there's a problem, they faceroll german infantry. we had this problem back in vcoh, it was called the ranger spam. a high upkeep and high reinforce cost probably sufficient a nerf. just make it difficult to field a couple of them |
Thread: Guard8 Jan 2014, 14:37 PM
guards are quite meh, mediocre AI power, piss poor AT power. however, they provide staying power with that 1.5 armour and 6 man team which sometimes is very welcoming in a fight and they have a decent grenade ability.
but because of their late arrival, many anti infantry indirect weapons are already in the field. rifle nades and mortars are bloody darn effective against them. on top of that, dp28 forces them to stop moving and fire, which cuts their mobility by a whole lot else they do not do any effective fire at all, as when on the move, only 2 mosins are firing, the dp and ptrs are deadweight. even with all guns firing, ptrs are dead weights, the performance of dp28 can barely justify its cost.
so this 'mehish' AI and even poorer AT unit is probably for their button ability which places guards a less than desirable support unit, rather than an elite fire team that comes in packing with much needed firepower such as bren gunners in vcoh.
so what can we do with this? honestly, the horrible performance of dp28s could do with abit of buffing. for a unit that is 360mp and 60munitions, they can do with more dps after upgraded. |
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for me, mht does a pretty good job dealing with mg and mortars. 120 takes a long time to desetup and move, incendiary rounds really wreck them. incendiary rounds and regular rounds are also pretty effective against mg and AT guns.
as for shocks, snipers, mg, gren combo deals with them nicely, just consolidate forces and focus fire on flankers. snipers reduces the firepower of shocks nicely, gren fire is still pretty effective against a diminished shocksquad.
also with fire on the move nerfed for tanks and paks cheaper, paks and schrecks are great against t34 spam. paks keeps t34s constantly on the move, shrecks can wreck them without much casualties. making a t2 heavy build quite a solid strategy.
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