penals got PTRS as last ditch emergency red button whitch you press when you get swarmed with lights and lack any other tool to deal with them, they were never mean to be worth upgrade in terms of AI.
Thats why penals with PTRS scale bad, they have bad AI at lvl3 and PTRS isn´t all that good against tanks. Thats why we implemented satchel, so if you was forced to go PTRS, you will get at least this little reward that keeps penals interesting lategame
And yes, that is the testing process that produced the AT Satchel.
This little reward that keeps penals interesting lategame is probably the best and most worthwhile change to the unit in the preview patch. That's the lesson that is important from this process.
It's an addition that the unit, the tier, and the faction, has needed since 2013.
But by that logic, the PTRS isn't a great option. It gets outclassed and doesn't scale well. As a result, I don't think it a great change to be considering for the game.
However, by your own description, if the AT Satchel is what lets the Penals scale well, what's the point of having the PTRS around at all? Why not stick with what might function best rather than what someone might intend initially? That's kind of the process of testing.
Drop the PTRS, keep the AT Satchels. That's the best feedback I can give so far.
Soviet v OKW and USF v Ostheer have been junky matchups since the start. However I feel like the solution there lies with adjustments to OKW rather than Soviets. Soviets have had core problems with their faction since day 1, but not at all on the level OKW has seen in its storied and checkered past.
Because I'm not just writing suggestions to the other modders. I'm presenting a mod of my own creation that features very simple changes that can also be seen as an alternative to the preview patch.
In my opinion a lot of energy is being put into things like scatter values and AoE of weapons in the Winter Preview Patch that may or may not prove fruitful (Or accomplish the intended goals). They don't want to hear someone say they think they have the wrong idea. (Who does?) But rather than just be dismissed, I decided to present my ideas in a more concrete form. It is my hope that the modding efforts would benefit from a different perspective that looks to make minimal changes to unit combat stats.
Tried playing some games to use the new AT Satchel.
It REALLY should not require PTRS to use. First off, it makes it bleedingly obvious to the opponent which units to keep their distance from. Second, having to spend munitions to use munitions is a little annoying. They already have satchels, but need to spend munis on a big rifle so the satchel acts lands on the tank. It's neither intuitive nor functional with the requirements currently in place. (It makes losing a penal battalion with PTRS that much harder to recover from too.)
I understand the concern with Oorah and the AT Satchel, but I really don't think it's something to be too worried about. It doesn't break suppression or make them immune to it, which would be a more valid concern. Especially when they're lugging a PTRS symbol around it makes it even harder to get them into position or play any sort of mind game with your opponent.
Maybe with the suggested additions to the M42, those being the same stats as the T70 gun, and perhaps even the garrison ability of the raketen, this little thing can be put in T1 and server as both an early light vehicle counter AND a Maxim replacement or at least a Maxim alternative so people aren't forced to go T2 anymore just because of the ZiS and Maxim.
Just my opinion.
I made a little mod that did just that with the M42. It was fun, I'll admit, but all it really did was highlight how important the ZiS being in T2 is. I just wish every patch didn't break mod functionality. Ruined all the reference IDs.
As a result, I think it'd be easier to just switch the maxim with the sniper.
Maxim spam would be obliged to T1. T2 would have the ZiS, indirect fire, and a sniper which would round things out immensely. It would be a great tier for countering enemy tactics OR supporting a conscript heavy/commander reliant build (DShk, PPSh, etc). Axis players would know maxim spammers wouldn't also have access to the ZiS whenever they needed it for AT and barrages.
With the AT Satchels alone Soviet T1 finally has some sort of backstop against early vehicles. Each Soviet tier finally has some functional ability to handle vehicles.
T2 can be built as a first tech building and contains the ZiS.
For that reason T1 is kind of always going to be a bit of a detour.
Unless a Soviet player is able to overwhelmingly capitalize on the early game T1 power enough to bridge to a fast T34 or something, a Soviet is usually going to have to (bacK) tech to T2 at some point for the ZiS. Not to mention the maxim resides in T2.
I wonder if the maxim and sniper were swapped what would happen...
I actually think with the 'sticky' satchels, the PTRS is unneeded. It's sort of like Sturmpioneers with Schrecks, it's kind of spreading them too thin. But 3 different versions of PTRS is just not ideal IMO. Remember, Soviets have mines. (But ultimately, Soviets the ZIS available as their first tier REALLY complicates the matter of T1. Soviets are always going to need the ZiS, which makes the T1 option by default a detour.) However, sticky satchels will go a long way to give Soviets an option (if only in threat) against yoloing halftracks.
I have always believed that conscripts should get a 3ppsh global upgrade using fuel. If a PPSh commander is used, those conscripts can still be upgraded to have a full set of 6 PPSh.
Conscripts are already most effective at closest ranges, and with PPSh their role won't change, but evolve to have lategame function (clearing a crucial PAK easier for instance.) Their lack of smoke and durability still makes Shocks a strong choice, and close range capabilities would still synergize with Penals and Guards well.
Penals with AT satchels really are well set up. They could use molotovs or DP-28s to round out their abilities and role for Soviets. DP-28s could include button or not, but they could also include a version of rear echelon suppressing fire. But that was how I felt while I was trying to figure out how to make AT satchels myself. Molotovs would be a worthwhile replacement for the flamethrower though.
I've also thought about how feasible it would be to have Penals start with normal rifles, and have a global upgrade for SVTs. But that's a whole monster of rebalancing and testing that I don't think people would have the slightest interest in.
It would be interesting to see how an M42 with a sort of treadbreaker ability could function. But having 2 forms of ATgun in T1 and T2 seems clunky. I'd almost suggest moving the ZiS to T3 or something if it didn't mean wholly gutting T2 or redesigning all the soviet tiers (again.)
So my time is increasingly limited, especially this time of year, so I decided to construct a very basic set of changes in a mod to illustrate some ideas that might really help the efforts:
Moved mortar team to LT tier.
M20 armor skirts adds 140 health instead of 80.
M20 base health reduced 40. (200 from 240)
Reduce initial Lieutenant squad fuel cost by 20. (30 from 50)
Increase Weapons rack cost by 10 fuel. (25 from 15)
M1919s also require weapons rack upgraded.
Increase Captain cost by 15 fuel. (75 from 60)
AA HT fuel cost increased 10. (60 from 50)
AA HT manpower cost reduced 30. (320 from 350)
M20 fuel cost increased 10. (30 from 20)
Lieutenant comes without BAR, may purchase BAR for 50 muni.
Lieutenant loadout uses Riflemen rifle instead of Captain thompson.
Lieutenant unlock upgrade time increased to 70 seconds from 60.
Major unlock upgrade increased by 5 fuel. (125 from 120)
Major unlock upgrade time decreased to 50 seconds from 60.
Rear Echelon can lay mines once upgraded with minesweepers.
Ostheer Changes:
Grenadier panzerfaust damage to 120 from 100.
Grenadier panzerfaust deflection damage multiplier to 0.8 from 0.45
Chance to induce a damage engine critical changed to 50% health from 75% health.
OKW Changes:
Volks grenadier faust to 120 damage from 100.
Gave the volks faust the same 5 damage explosion on deflection that the grenadier faust has.
Vet 4 faust unchanged: still deals 160 damage
Health to damage engine unchanged, still 75%
Didn't give it the 5 damage explosion.
Soviets Changes:
Maxim moved to T1.
Sniper Team moved to T2.
Conscript molotovs and AT grenades merged into a 125mp 40 fuel upgrade.
Demolition Charges and Satchel Charges locked behind a 125mp 30 fuel upgrade from HQ.
Try it out yourself, dismiss it, explore it, love it, hate it, I figured this is probably my best way to communicating my ideas. But hey, if you have any suggestions you'd like to see, post them here! If I have the time and its feasible enough I'll try to implement it so that it can be put to the test! I got a couple days off this weekend.
Molotovs would be a worthwhile replacement for the flamethrower though.
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