-Camouflage is now available at Veterancy 0
-Now has First-Strike Bonuses; increases accuracy by 50% for 5 seconds.
-JLI G43 Sniper Rifle light and heavy cover accuracy modifiers from 0.5 to 0.9.
-JLI G43 Sniper Rifle garrison accuracy modifiers from 0.5 to 0.9
-Camouflage is now available at Veterancy 0
UTILITY
-Now has First-Strike Bonuses; increases accuracy by 50% for 5 seconds.
It lasts 5 seconds, soft retreat then engage.
-JLI G43 Sniper Rifle light and heavy cover accuracy modifiers from 0.5 to 0.9.
Buff to a SINGLE GUN
-JLI G43 Sniper Rifle garrison accuracy modifiers from 0.5 to 0.9
Buff to a SINGLE GUN
So essentially, they got a worse sniper in the squad, that you cant deal with and are complaining about.
They used to be 300mp. I don't understand why the price was discounted by a further 50mp. They were already a decent unit even before the buff, and now they're just absolutely broken in team games. Groups of 3+ Jaegers can be seen wiping MGs in a matter of seconds, and wiping basically any retreating unit near them due to the insane crit damage they do. Basically, if you see a group of Jaegers and you're outmanned you have no choice but to retreat right now or risk wiping a squad even if it was near full HP at the time of engagement.
They were never used.
3+ units of almost any infantry can wipe a mg from the front, provided you're not blobbing.
You propose across the board nerfs to OKW, with a few token buffs to make it look like that's not what you're doing.
Nobody would build Obers early, many people don't build them at all now! I can't remember the last game I did. I (and would assume most other OKW players) prefer volks, even when they are trash late game, they're cheap and easy to support.
OKW is not a faction that is overpowered, these nerfs would put OKW in the ground for good.
Wow that devolved quickly. Anyways a lot of sturms dropping off like stones has to do with weapon upgrades. BARs/brens/DP28 boost combat effectivness of sturms opposition so much that they get out gunned massivly if they attempt to close the gap. That coupled with the fact they're just worse pgrens, don't have their DPS shifted to weapon upgrades so they lose larger % of their DPS when models drop etc, makes them just meh unless they can sit around shotblockers. They also have too many roles to fill which makes it hard for them to just camp shot blockers as well.
I think the unit would work better if we made them complete Pgren clones but made their "Pgren StGs" upgrades that they could buy at a similar time Pgrens would come out. That'd help with scaling a bit better since Pgrens have no problem in that department. Or just go the easy route and making their veterancy bonuses final result equal to that of pgrens.
As to the excessive flaming, I think people prefer to flip out without reading the question. I tried to keep it less than one line to prevent this, but it still failed...
I like this idea, but replacing stg with stg seems silly.
Why not give them mp40 or rifles as a pzgren clone and then give them upgrades to stg at the same time pzgren comes out.
If people actually read and understand what OP is asking, instead of arguing about semantics and "intentions", the forum would be less toxic.
This whole thing could had been avoided if you use the correct words in the first opening post as it derailed what people is thinking.
Your complain is not about the veterancy, but how you FEEL that they are scaling into the mid-late game.
For 300mp unit, they have lower vet requirements for cost, than other units in similar price range.
Vet values should be (if i read the outdated guide and changelog right)
- 50% construction rate (they moved medkits to vet 0 and that was a great buff)
- -30% weapon cooldown, -23% received accuracy +33% repair rate
- Unlocks the 'Concussive Grenade' Ability, +25% construction rate
- 40% accuracy
- No longer takes extra damage when you repair.
The basics on vet for combat units are: -23% RA, 40% accuracy, 20% cooldown, vet 1 ability and some flavour vet like extended range on abilities, reduced muni cost or faster recharge. Check which boxes SP fulfill.
Some units have extra values or different ones to account for their faction, their scaling and their role as a unit.
For example: Penals high vet bonuses or Royal Engineers lack of accuracy boost. Both have one thing in common. Weapon upgrades. The main thing which the game revolves around during the mid to late game, is how much muni investment you can put into your infantry. Lack of them makes units scale poorly, as a unit which lacks them have a harder time if they don't have enough vet. On the other hand, cheap units which gain access to weapon racks, need to have their offensive boost in check.
Which brings to the main point of this thread: why Sturmpio "fails" during the mid to late game.
- Powerspike/powerboost coming from light vehicle shock units, upgraded infantry or elite infantry.
- Short range units have a harder time, if they don't have tools to close the gap. Smoke, sprint, grenades, something which lets them not get bleed as much on approach.
- If you want to keep using SP offensively at that point in the game, you must constantly use the Concussion grenade. Your vet 2 generally opposes the combat bonuses from vet 2 from other units. You have to hit vet 4 to actually oppose enemy units vet 3.
The only sensible change then would be if it's better having the accuracy boost at vet3 or keep the nade where it is. One nerfs people who actually make use of it and the other is just braindead simple buff on performance overall.
Different kind of mid game buff:
-Let them be able to upgrade to both Schreck and Minesweeper.
-Schreck should be able to have the same function as the sweeper to be hidden.
-Only one can be active at the same time.
-Once both upgrades are bought, you can't no longer swap upgrade with STG. Instead the button will change into a toggle between both Schreck and Sweeper.
-Implement a small munition cost for the change (20-30 muni range) or make it have a long cooldown (2 mins aprox).
A small cost which is in the range of a snare/grenade or a long cooldown to avoid constant swapping between both.
Thank you for actually attempting to understand the intent behind the question 'Why is their veterancy so bad?'
What it FEELS like to me is that they can compete with units in the early game, the second midgame rolls around, they struggle with everything except cons. Until cons reach vet 3. I guess its the weapon upgrades that make it feel like this.
By comparing them to other factions engineer units, is not a fair comparison, because sturms cost as much as penals, and are expected to be a front line combat unit. Why would you ever relegate a unit with 4xstgs to only repairing?
Also, I would never get the shrek upgrade, EVER. Its a 4 man squad with a shrek and they feel squishier than a volks squad whilst being more expensive. After ~10 mins, they struggle to hold their own against ALL allied infantry, so why give them a pzshrek, when the squad is likely to get 1-shot by stray tank shells whilst helping repel an armoured assault? That would also mean you need 2x Sturmpionier which is a terrible idea as you need a minesweeper always.
You and NaCL carry over the most retarded of arguments from other threads.
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Jokes aside, they are in a fine spot right now. They aren't shock troops, they are just "better engineers".
Firstly. It's NaOCl.
Secondly, I didn't make an argument, I ASKED A QUESTION, perhaps going to school might have helped you understand the difference. I'll repeat for the ones among us who didn't ever manage to learn comprehension.
"Why is their veterancy so bad?"
I wanted to understand the REASONING and DESIGN PHILOSOPHY behind why they don't scale well into the late game.
IE is it to stop double sturmpionier being a viable opening? Some other reason?
Well tbh the sturmpio has alot of utility for a 300mp unit... and sturmpio rushes are farily strong against usf and balanced vs sov... sturmpios arent the first thing one can think of as underpowered okw things....
Nobody said they're underpowered, try reading the question.
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