Weapon teams are not more effective with vanilla crew but they are by far more cost effective (apart from maxim and DShK), becouse they are 25% cheaper to reinforce. That actually makes a difference. It is also worth noting that losing squads in general is not something that happens often in serious games. In case of weapon teams the loss is mostly in veterancy, but there is also a net loss in models needed to reinforce and higher reinforcement costs.
As for man of war, it is simply a game for different audience. You cant compare apples with oranges.
Oh I'm not meaning to say that Men of War should necessarily be compared with CoH. I was merely saying that MoW is more consistent and intuitive. CoH is full of bizarre rules like "MG crews have 1.25 received accuracy" which are never communicated to players. Hell, even the basic tooltips and unit descriptions are woefully out of date. How hard is it to have someone update them for each patch. I'm pretty sure a dedicated player would do this for free if asked.
Reinforcement cost is important, but why are the crews who use the same weapons as infantry utterly useless? I know the game is going for balance over realism, but having the game say a crew is trained to use an MG42 and then having them be the absolute worst infantry in the game at using an MG42 is somewhat baffling. |
|
One thing that would help combined arms is making light vehicles viable for the entire game. At the moment way too many infantry types get powerful AT and can just easily run through the fire of vehicles like the 251, the M3, the 222, the Kubel etc. One way to make these units viable late game without them being OP early-mid game is give them increasing suppression with veterancy.
So a 251 when it first comes out is mostly useful for reinforcing and chipping away at enemy squads, but once it reaches vet 2 or 3 it gains some suppression. Not as much as an HMG, but enough that say 3 bursts will suppress a squad, so a kiting 251 can easily suppress lazily micro'd infantry trying to charge it will At grenades.
This way, Light vehicles remain useful as a way to pin down late game infantry, something heavy vehicles like tanks can't do.
This could also revitalize vehicles like the 221. maybe give these vehicles a vet ability like "suppressing fire" where they lose damage but gain suppression.
This would also make suppression a more widespread mechanic, instead of being consigned almost entirely to HMGs. |
|
It seems a shame to me that the designers want weapon crews to be total bollocks in combat. It makes no logical sense and isn't communicated to players in any way. For example, a Russian Vickers Mg is far better at its job when crewed by some random German pioneers than when it is crewed by soldiers specifically designed to use the weapon.
Maybe if they made the crew worse but the weapon itself perform better with the proper crew, that would make sense. Instead we are left with crews with around 10-30% accuracy for no reason.
I feel like this is why I'll always prefer the Men of War series. For all its faults, at least it seems to have fewer ridiculous inconsistencies and odd design decisions. |
So I've been looking on CoHstats.com and it would appear that OKW weapon crews are just volks. They all use the volks version of the Kar 98 and have 1.0 target size with the exception for MGs who have 1.25 and AT guns who surprisingly have .85
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/volksgrenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp
So it looks like as far as damage output goes they are equivalent to regular infantry.
Soviet crews on the other hand appear to be utterly appalling with almost no accuracy on their weapon. Ost crews aren't much better, using an inferior version of the pioneer MP40 with all of 2 damage.
The really bizarre ones are the US crews. They have worse accuracy than regular rifleman but appear to do 2x the amount of damage with their Garands.
Does anyone know how accurate this site actually is? |
|
Tiger should be normal unit, King Tiger should doctrinal. Why can both factions build a Panther, but neither can build a Tiger? Seems a wasted opportunity to me. Give the Tiger some love
Give 1 the Panther standard and the Tiger Ace doctrinal, and the other gets Tiger normal and Panther leader doctrinal. |
With the newest patch they can. Feuersturm Doctrine got an Opel Blitz which can reinforce on the field and also give some other bonus but I am not exactly sure which one this is.
True, with this doctrine they can, but it is similar to the ambulance, it dies easily. Apparently it buffs munition-based recharge times too. Gonna have to test this. I wish it buffed resource production of the sector it was in. That would help OKW a lot more. |
Why?
Other factions pay equally much if not more + need to pick a weak doctrine as well for it.
Its perfectly fair for what it does.
Because they have no halftrack and can't reinforce in the field.
|
I think they have slightly less than 1.0 received accuracy, but it isn't nearly enough to compensate for lack of a fifth model.
So in the end, yes, the four model squads are a blatant handicap and unbalanced. It used to be balanced in vanilla CoH2 because Soviet infantry was really bad per model and needed to overtake with sheer numbers, but with the release of Western Front Armies the game has gone into full power creep, with all Allied factions, including Soviets thanks to absurdly overpowered Penals, being blatantly better than Ostheer, and somewhat better than OKW (mostly because Volksgrenadiers don't exist as they deal no damage whatsoever).
I seem to remember in CoH1's stats that infantry had different HP levels and armour levels, which was used to make up for some squads having more soldiers. So Grens had more health than volks, Stormtroopers had more health than grens and KCHs had even higher hp than all of them. Now it seems received accuracy is the only stat that can make a squad harder to kill.
Actually, I may be wrong there, this game does have an armour stat, and it's almost as confusing as COH1's bizarre armour types that made Pgrens so wildly inconsistent. |
|
300mp for a retreat marker seems ridiculous to me. If it is going to cost that much at least make it available on all trucks. |
|
So I'm pretty new to CoH2 after playing CoH 1 a fair bit. I'm loving OKW so far, but the biggest problem I tend to have is reinforcing my squads in the field. With Ostheer I always have a halftrack on standby, but OKW doesn't seem to have any decent reinforcement options. Their squads kick a lot of ass but having to run all the way back across the map to get my squads up to strength or to recrew a heavy weapon is just killing me. Is there something I'm missing here? I just find it hard to keep up any kind of pressure with this army.
I know the medic truck can reinforce but once it's set up it can't be moved and putting it too far forward is suicide. Not to mention that it costs a hell of a lot to get both medics and making it a forward retreat point.
At the moment I'm mostly practicing against AI and I find myself chasing my AI partner's 251s around the map to reinforce lol |
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
