Profile of Kill3rCat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhXxK2TGTEA

This is why.

Not that something like this could happen, but that a clip from a top streaming player tends to be taken as evidence of the norm. After all, I'd wager more people have probably seen the above clip than have seen a Sturmtiger operate as effectively. (Let alone used one in such a fashion themselves.)

I'll be frank; HelpingHans made a mistake. He normally plays well, but in that instance, was playing like someone who'd just bought the game. The loss of his three tanks could have easily been avoided, by even slightly microing his tanks. From the moment he saw the Sturmtiger, to the moment it fired, he had about 10 seconds to react, and he failed to do so.

An example of one Twitch streamer making a mistake does not mean the Sturmtiger is a viable weapon. People playing badly and blaming their woes on 'STURMTIGER OP' (not that Hans did, but most people who lose units tend to blame it on the relative balance of opposing units, rather than their own bad play) is likely what got this vehicle nerfed into 'irrelevancy' as one user finely put it.

T34/85 OP
SHOCK TROOPS OP
STURMPIONEERS OP
JAGDTIGER OP
ELEFANT OP
MG42 OP
...Sturmtiger OP

you get the idea. Most things in this game are fairly well balanced, and ironically, those which are overperforming typically only seem to be doing so because their counterparts got nerfed unjustly.

For a long time, the Sturmtiger had been considered useless by many Axis players for a longtime, due to the fact that its long firing time made its shots easily avoidable by good micro, and its ridiculously short range destroyed any potential element of surprise, essentially making the tank a very expensive coffin.

The only effective way to use the Sturmtiger was to hide it behind a solid map object like a house etc. Even then it was a bit hit-and-miss, with the Sturmtiger's shorts often falling short. I felt that with the immense amount of damage this vehicle was capable of inflicting, its innacuracy combined with its vulnerability and long vulnerable reload time, the vehicle was fairly balanced

Now, post nerf: After the ninja-nerf of the Sturmtiger making it unable to fire through any map object, it is now utterly useless. Any potential for ambushing with this unit is gone, leaving only the tenuous possibility of a lucky shot head-on.

Before the ninja-nerf, the Sturmtiger doctrine (Elite Armoured) was one of the least-used doctrines (indeed, I only ever saw one other person use it in a team game, and I may have been one of the few people who semi-regularly used this vehicle, as I loved this tank for its unique gameplay). After the ninja-nerf, this doctrine is going to obtain the same obscurity as the also-nerfed-to-uselessness Overwatch Doctrine.

Edit: I can get over the higher unit price, and I can also get over the inability to fire through map objects as that doesn't make much sense. However, the only reason people used the Sturmtiger through buildings/map objs, was because the Sturmtiger was useless otherwise.

Suggestions to rebalance the Sturmtiger: it should get a significantly larger range. The Sturmtiger was an assault gun; somewhere between a tank and an artillery piece. Its role and stats in the game should reflect this. To counterbalance this, it could have its LOS reduced, or limited to a cone in front of the vehicle to place emphasis on its role as a support unit.

Or you could give penals some sort of an upgrade that's mutually exclusive with the PTRS upgrade like DPs for late game after corresponding nerfs. It would give them a role at least, as sort of guards-lite, which they already are anyway (but better).

Or that. That would be fair, considering that any Axis infantry you send against Penals need some kind of expensive muni upgrade to make them viable competition for the Penal hordes, either G43s, STG44s or MG42s.

They may cost more to reinforce, but not only are they better, but because they are better they'll actually be losing many less models and killing more models also. So the increased reinforce cost almost certainly balances out. (EDIT: When testing in-game, I discovered both actually only seem to require 25 manpower to reinforce each model... not the 28 you alleged for Penals)

Using ballpark figures from one of my in-game tests, 5 Penals vs 6 Volksgrenadiers (using these values since they have not yet lost any models and thus we only care about build cost right now) at mid range (since mid-range is typically a good approximation of a fight that starts at long range but closes to mid, without giving the AI room to be stupid... and is not even the Penals' strong point, which is close-range), the survivors ranged from:

Min: One 6-man Penal squad and four one-man Penal squads (needing 20 reinforces to reach full force)

Max: Two 5-man Penals and three one-man Penal squads (needing 17 reinforces to reach full force)

I'll be generous and assume on average 19 reinforces for Penals will be required after a battle with equal initial MP investment. I am also assuming, for the sake of argument, that both players micro perfectly and pull out their one-man squads before they get wiped.

In both situations, the Volks had six 1-man squads (needing 24 reinforces to reach full force)

Volks cost: 24*25 = 600 MP
Penals cost: 19*25 = 475 MP (if I somehow fluffed up, which I didn't, then 19*28 = 532 MP)

This means, in a prolonged war of attrition, Penals are 1-(475/600) = 0.208333... ~ 21% more cost-effective than Volksgrenadiers.

Even assuming I fluffed up and that Penals do actually cost 28 MP to reinforce, then Penals are only 11% more cost-effective than Volks. But since in a prolonged fight, reinforce costs matter more than initial costs, Penals > Volks still.

You ignored the part of your numerous superiority. If he spents 480 MP on zis and 300 MP on cripples petals, you should have 2 more fighting squads than him, so getting through the few penalty shouldn't be a problem.

If you don't believe me, let's play 1v1 game, you Soviet player, me OKW player and go Zis gun while I go luchs. GL

Luchs is not free...

Zis is 480 MP plus 160 MP and 20 fuel. Total: 640 MP, 20 fuel.

Luchs is 265 MP and 60 fuel, plus 200 MP and 50 fuel for the structure. Total: 465 MP, 110 fuel.

The difference: 175 MP. Not enough even for a single Volksgrenadier squad. What numerical superiority? Even if it were enough for one additional Volksgrenadier squad, the Penals would still win. If you had the munitions, you could certainly deal some pain with a 60 muni Zis barrage (I actually think the cost of the Zis barrage should have both its cost and duration halved, since it does feel fairly weak versus infantry and it's easy to move infantry when you notice a Zis barrage, but I suppose it's meant to be used against buildings).