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On one hand I can agree with this. As a 3v3 player, the wide arc on the MG42 coupled with pio sight and PGrens rushing you down is cancerous. As USF you either need to tech nades fast to smoke and sink those precious munis or just play around parts which are not contested (non-fuel parts). Leads to stale games where as USF, you go online once AA HT and pak howis go online. Which is around min 7. (or stuart).
On the other hand, I feel like OST would be in a disadvantage if they didn't go for that build. MG42 is absolutely needed. Grens are great on long range, but quite poor on close. Pios are good close range but only if they are already behind cover.
So OST has the quite effective PGrens at an early timing which do s*** on all mainlines, then further amplified by the fast LV.
Is it unbalanced? Maybe. But that's mostly because of map design. If the maps were not completely lockable by one MG42 then we would have a different story, at least in 3v3+. So I mostly blame the poor map design, rather than OST having "OP" units. |
Nope, i was against uncounterable flares for the longest time
just that being moved to vet0 is very strong ability in late games.
All flares are locked behind some tech vet. Why is mortar given a free pass? Considering that performance/durability of mortars are about the same across all factions now. strange to get this extra ability
Ost has which native units with higher LOS?
A) Mortar flares are unit bound and range constricted
B) Pios have larger sight (normal unit sight is 35, pio is 42)
C) While OKW flares can be popped in any corner of the map freely, mortar flares require you to actually bring the mortar to the front lines and risk losing it. Hence why OKW flares are completely non-counterable while soviet flares can lead to bleed and lost unit. |
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Well, if you go reworking Jackson just to rework M10, then you'll have a broken faction. Either OP or UP. And besides, it's idiotic at best to go reworking Jackson just to touch another unit. Not to mention how much USF depends on it, especially in teamgames. It's already hard to include 2 jacksons and a sherman into the standard roster in teamgames. Not to mention the absolute need for a calliope (unless you're into sadomasochism). There's only so much pop one can fit.
Is it so hard to make a unit special in some way? I mean, it's f****** doctrinal so there is not really a danger of being picked in every game/mode |
I'm not sure if it is the right thing to give up on the flanking mechanic because it just don't works out at the moment. That would be sad, because it removes a potential tactic from the game. Shouldn't we think how we can make flanking more viable and rewarding?
With HVAP at Vet0 and Flanking Speed at Vet1 the M10 will become the small inferior brother of M36 even more since it would emphasize it for frontal fights. One of its basic problems in that combat role would be, that it would always loose vs T3 Stug G because of higher target size, less RoF, less accuracy and lower penetration (without activating HVAP). In frontal use it is just an inferior StuG G while beeing doctrinal on top.
What is the problem about flanking? If you flank you risk to eat a mine, an infantry snare or running in supporting AT weapons (handheld/ATG). Pretty much everytime I tried to use multiple M10s in a multiplayer game for a strong flanking move I made good damage vs Tanks/vehicles only to run into some infantry with shreks and snares to get finished up quickly. The main problem is, that one hit with any AT weapon is enough to follow up a snare instantly. A snared M10 is dead of course, there is no way to escape somehow.
Maybe Flanking speed should just give some more received acc, additional turret rotation speed and a timed snare immunity. I do think something like that could be the difference between a desastrous flank and a somehow successful one. This are just some thoughts,
Alternatively you could think about lowering its target size in general or raising the amount of damage that is needed for a successful snare. Just some more thoughts.
You could trade some penetration or range for better RoF too, if flanking would work out, such changes would really emphasize the flanking aspect.
Anything that doesn't lead to another standard TD for frontal fights is a good thing.
Agreed. Seems like any time there is an issue with an USF unit being inferior or useless or downright stupidly designed, the balance team just slaps an ability (timed, swappable or costly) and calls it a day.
Why on God's green earth would anyone make M10 a frontal fighting unit.
I would do:
Target size 22 -> 20
Sight to 40
Fuel to 90
Penetration to 200-180-160 or 190-180-170
Range 50 -> 45
Ability that enhances the agility of the tank (rotation, speed...) for true flanks
HP to 640
MP cost += 30 (for the HP buff for 2 snares needed)
Something in those lines. I'm not well versed in pure numbers for this game so I do not really know the depth of impacts of each number changed, but I think that something along these lines would make the M10 actually a doctrinal choice. You can get a cheaper TD that doesn't have the range but does have great agility to get in and out of fights quickly. Also, do not underestimate the ability to drive away far before the snare hits, which it could do with it's agility. |
Hey, they are cool.
Yeah, but total FPS killers. RX 580 with ryzen 5 1600 and 16 GB of dual channel and still after 20 minutes the FPS goes to 10-20
I'd say this is overall one of the best maps with the exception of how elevation causes some BS ground hits with AT guns and tanks -especially with the casemates-.
Would be a great map if not for elevation. Last game I played it on. Was shooting with 2 JP4s at an IS-2 and KV8. Out of 7 or 8 shots taken (about 4 each), only 2 collided with those hulking beasts. Rest went into the ground, or into the stars.
I find this map the incarnation of cancer.
You are right about all of the above, with slight difference to my tastes but this statement is juts pure fallacy. How is Lienne cancerous? It's not the best of maps but still..
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As a mainly USF player.
Worst 3v3 maps:
Ettelturd station. Just pure spios/pak43/artyfest/large ass cone MG42 lockdown/cancer brit mortar pits/werfercancer
Essen steelworks. Just too large and stupidly designed with plenty of idiotic cover placements and pathfindings. Haven't seen a tank not get a seizure trying to drive anywhere on that map
Angrymundy: Pure shit MG42 in key buildings rush. Pathfinding. Pak43 behind tall buildings blocking all arty except vertical offmaps. Also cancer brit mortar pits when playing as OKW. Seizures on retreat paths and vehicle movements.
Port of Hamburger: lane-y shit. Favors one side over the other. Hard to flank, easy to mine. Easy to lock out. Cancer building on bot fuel. Still, better than Angry, Essen and Turdstation.
All snow maps because of FPS. F*** that s***
Shitstain express. Lane-y s*** with idiotic slight elevation on top fuel. Still better than Angry, Essen and Turd
Hill of 400 turds: Cancer elevation. Arty fest and occasional pak43 to fu** up your evening being parked behind and sniping with 80 range. Need arty to kill it on that map.
Best 3v3 maps:
Whiteball. Has some cancerous tactics on the mid VP and if no offmaps are taken, pak43 behind the building can f*** you up.
Steppes. A bit too large but great design. Large wide map. Cancer shooting up the elevation though.
Rhzev Winter would be a good map if the f****** winter part was cut out.
Winekkendonk is absolute blast. Great map
Neutral maps:
Rhine. Lane-y and cancer top building for pios into MG42 rush, even locking out fuel with range from it.
General mud. A bit too large but great flanking options and no cancer schwerer/pak43 positions
Lienne Forest. Great map. Cancer playing against spios in forest or MG42s in buildings but otherwise an OK map.
Just my 2 cents. Shoutout to creators of Whiteball, it really is a good map.
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I still think Relic made a mistake by not adding in the Hellcat again.
Smaller faster TD with a .50 cal upgrade.
I also think it had a co-ax and hull machine gun but not entirely sure.
Could have served as a cheap mainline tank alternative to the Sherman or something, just like in the first game.
Perhaps. But agreed with Mira here. M10 is a bit weird and in teamgames quite useless. But for 1v1s it can work. Extended to 2v2? Sure. 3v3+ it's pointless to build it since speed and agility is not what wins here, but durability and firepower. If anything, some slight reworks are only needed for M10. Nothing major |
Thread: RK 43 10 May 2021, 15:40 PM
It would be nice to have an at gun that has at least a shield for the gunner and loader
Sure, but remove retreat then.
And the shield mechanic is buggy AF. Not really something that is detrimental when trying to defend the AT gun. Retreat is still the best feature on raketen, one that saves it more times than all the gun shields combined on all factions. |
Depend on your commander selection.
Urban
Heavy Cav
Recon/Airborne
But I'm asking for the non doctrinal tactics. It's really boring being forced to play the Calliope
commanders.
You veto the laney maps, its the only way.
I veto snowy maps first, for performance reasons, then I veto essen (big advantage for OKW, that map) and angermunde (shit map altogether) |
1)You can use WP shells from pak-howie. Not only it damages passing infantry, but it also block vision for whatever coming after them and disables vehicle's weapons. Same goes for WP mortars on rifle/mech company halftruck - decent and cheap.
Tried that. The shells usually take too long to land. That and the fact that when I did do it. It kinda went against me because the blob just went around it and I had blocked sight (not to mention that ground targeting through blocked sight is cancerous due to latency, delay)
2) You could back-tech to LT and grab couple of HMG's - coupled with AAHT they will keep anything but snipers constantly suppresed. Thing is - they are fragile af, so you always have to get two of those, and that messes up your army composition beyond repair.
True, messes up more than it fixes. Also, I did do it, but usually the stuka makes good work of those. Really ups the ante on the micro
OR, if you do not want all that - dig positions and upgrade them with HMG's (that way they wont snipe or steal it  ) Works especially well on line-y maps.
3) another way is major arty - self-explanatory, it is enough to deter but most stupid A-move blobs. But we do not really want to deter it, we want to smack it dead, so spam with major false flares and nuke them when you are about to retreat.
4)AFAIK a lot of lines on redball can be opened up with explosives or heavycrush, but that is more of late-game stuff, so not really useful to you.
5) A lot of ways to deal with infantry spam is doctrinal, thats for sure - from bar-finders and cavrifles to upgraded shermans.
6) Any sorts of defences will eventually fall if they throw enough meat at it, so if you can't beat them - join them, outblob their blob. Bait stuka with howies, then you will have considerable amount of time to wage blob wars.
xD. Good one. I will keep this in mind.
Problem is. My laptop has RX 580, Ryzen 5 1600, 16 GB dual channel, 2x SSDs and what not. The performance is great (eg. running Metro Exodus on High, full hd, 60 fps), but COH2 and the snowy maps really hammer the FPS past minute 15-20. That's why I always veto snow maps, and only two vetos left. One for Angrymunde and one for Essen Shitworks (here OKW has a big advantage with schwerer and forward tanky retreat point so I want to negate that advantage in 3v3) |
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