Calliope does need a nerf considering it's survivability. While it does arrive later and costs more, it should remain a 400 hp vehicle but with armour that P4 will penetrate 100% of time. Puma still shouldn't at max range because it has the mobility and smoke to close in to Callope and penetrate it. So saying that puma doesn't penetrate calliope at max range is not a statement that should be taken into consideration. Puma definitely pays for itself at any stage of the game.
If you do not nerf the armour, you definitely need to nerf it's mobility then (or nerf armour + a bit of mobility). While the enemy should invest time and resources to take down a doctrinal unit, Callope is quite sturdy when it comes to that.
Having 160 frontal armour means that P4 has about 70% chance to penetrate it, which is relatively speaking high, but a bit too low against a rocket launcher.
Callope definitely needs a nerf in armour/mobility department.
Although IMHO it's far from a unit that USF needs. I don't think USF ever needed Calliope. Strengths of the USF faction lie elsewhere.
While OKW fits the elitism with it's late game units and OST fits with it's great team weapons and less numbered but strong infantry, Callope doesn't really fit into USF. However, it's here and will probably stay so at least make it less agile and more penetrable.
You are the dude that said shrek pgrens in yellow cover and p4 flanks counter a KV1... maybe try to deal with a 15min KV1 before you make more useless posts
In average battlefield conditions, yes. If you throw them solo at it, good luck. You can quote me as much as you want just assume that I'm using "average BF conditions" as a prerequisite. I don't do 1v1 on empty field discussions.
I suggest you test KV-1 vs PzIV and see which ones wins most of the times.
I'm hoping you are not as dense as this post made you out to be. Of course KV1 will win but it's not by the virtue of having a great AT gun, it's because it's so spongy that the low penetration it has will still statistically net him the win, almost always. Probably 99% of time. But on the field, you're not going vs a solo unsupported OKW or OST P4 are you? You can debate and contemplate all you want with those quasi intellectual "this unit is OP or UP" while putting them in made up scenarios which most of the time will fit your narrative. Put a KV1 in a typical 2v2,3v3,4v4 game, it's pretty well balanced. Sure, KV1 and OKW P4 will shoot at each other for centuries and KV1 will come out on top if by some miracle, they are the only 2 units on the field. In 1v1, KV1 is probably on a stronger side of the scale, being a tanky tank that can tank. You'll usually come across 1 or 2 mediums or premium medium (Panther). Point is, in 1v1 the population you'll be going against is 2x lower on average than the 2v2, 3x in 3v3 etc. Not as many Raketens, Panzergren Shrecks, Paks and Stugs (or just get JP4 or Stug, they both have enough AT power to scare away KV1...Pak and raketen as well)
Point being, in an average Joe's game, KV1 is not your top priority in an engagement if you are fielding OKW P4 or anything heavier. The 100 penetration on medium range will net about 40% of penetrations. Even if no shot misses from the KV1, that's still enough time to win an engagement. If KV1 decides to focus your tank, same can be said about him, Learn to gauge the field conditions.
So until Panther comes along, KV1 is a nasty tank (also doctrinal) to throw infantry against but also with a bit of a strategy, it's existence can be neutered. Better players than me did it against me, but then again, I'm not much of a Soviet player.
Once Panther comes along, KV1 is just a veterancy buildup for Panther (or JP4 or Stug).
Manage to cripple KV1 and, unless it's really really lucky, it's a goner.
You can cripple any unit by any amount. Axis wheraboos and Ally fanboys will find something to complain about. Callope is fine in the firepower sense, it only needs to be toned down on the armour department so that medium tanks will always penetrate it. That with/or a speed/velocity reduction so it's less mobile.
It's all here. Pretty much the same gun out of the workshop with a ~0.6 better reload speed.
Same accuracy, same penetration, same damage. I think that historically, KV1 did have a T34/76 gun.
At least wiki says so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliment_Voroshilov_tank
One guy has bad luck in a match and suddenly KV1 OP (just like the thread a couple of months ago). Using KV1 as anything but a bullet sponge is "good luck with that". Can it survive? Yes. Is it a T4 heavy doctrinal tank? Also yes. Is it AT medium+ capable? No. Is it a good tank? Yes. As axis, you can have all tanks except OST P4 and Stug near it and not have to worry about it at all. If you're fielding a Tiger and you come across the enemy KV1 combined arms and you decide to focus KV1 first, next to conscripts or ZiS or whatever, then it's your L2P problem.
KV1 has 270 armour, 10 more than a Panther (stock), piss-poor AT and movement, quite good vs light vehicles and infantry. It's got high rear armour. And how can you even compare it's rear armour to that of Elefant that has 400 frontal armour or 450 of Jagdtiger. Ofc those tanks will have low rear armour since they are pretty much impenetrable from the front.
Tiger is 300/140, a bit more than KV1, also doctrinal, more expensive but also MUCH better at AI, AT, ROF, fear factor, etc.
This thread, like 80% of others, is a nonsensical rant.
They're just a lot worse. PGrens are a 4-man squad while werfer rockets take forever to reach and are easily dodged even by those with 56k connections. Worse still, Werfer has only 1 salvo so there isn't even an area-denial/pushing opportunity. With continuous bombardment rocket artillery, you can actually use that to support a tank push.
Calliope is so good I actually use the doctrine in 1 v 1, since it saves the trouble/cost of teching Captain + unlock for pack howie. The Calliope is almost impossible to dive and can even survive double PAK. Even as a 1 v 1 main it's a ridiculous unit. I can imagine it being hell for team game players.
While I agree, from my experience, I usually lost team games where my mates went for callope. On one hand, it is good in area denial, but 90% of the time, people will just fall back a bit and wait it out, especially since later on there are elephants with spotting scopes and LeFH, so falling back a bit won't net you a loss. I honestly think that @Achpawel's proposal to reduce speed/rotation after using the barrage would be the best way. If you decrease ROF of rockets... that can go both ways. On one hand, less shit/second, on other, longer area denial (assuming same amount of rockets). If you decrease survivability, it becomes meh, since it's not as lethal as other rocket arty. But if you decrease mobility, you decrease the possibility to do shotgun salvos (which callope needs to do to be effective) without risking death. And definitely Calliope should get 100% penetrated at all ranges by P4.
It all depends on what you are after. Werfer takes some time to land and produces a distinct sound, but when it lands it kills infantry. It's most definitely the best are denier, fast but 100% that infantry will retreat (or a lot and lot of bleed).
Stuka has the wiping potential, easy to predict where the rockets will land and when they land, cars, light vehicles, infantry and team weapons usually go bye-bye or will need repairs. On team maps like Port of hamburg, stuka and werfer potential is amplified ten fold because of the lane-y maps and usual forward positions. A lot of impassable terrain makes for great werfer and stuka plays.
Still I would say that the biggest danger is the scatter. If you have super precise barrages, the enemy will know where they can/cannot go. Example. Werfer barrage. Not until 1 second in do you know whether you are on the margin of the AOE or dead-center. Stuka you really need to side pedal a lot or risk dying (side pedal because 90% of players aim for retreat paths).
The difference is how potential it is. I say that since years... even made videos about how OP quad is.
On a 4vs4 map one quad is as powerfull as 3 Ostwinds... nobody cares.
it is simply a joke...
While I agree that it's strong, it's a dedicated AA counter. Ostwind can take on light tanks and even finish off medium from behind. It's more durable and much better vs infantry (AA can suppress but weaker generally). I don't think I've ever seen the soviet AA doing anything but shooting down planes, usually parked behind front lines. It's just that, a dedicated AA counter, while ostwind is not. Furthermore, soviet (except ISU and IS2) tanks do not have pintle MGs for aircraft engagement, while OKW and OST does. All in all, all factions have good AA options, with soviet AA being the best. Tone it's AA potential down and Ostwind or flak become the best, while also being much more versatile and generally better at AI (especially flak). It's a give/take relationship.
I honestly don't know how you could tone down Soviet AA without making it useless. Maybe somebody with better insight does know.
give okw a t0 smoke option. like USF got since devs realize their play is shutdown by mg spam ...and oh wonder its the same for OKW.
Smoke nades need to be bought on USF, which delays tech, which can be substantial in all game modes. But yes, OKW should get some sort of smoke, whether locked behind first tech or upgrade.
EDIT: And for the MG counterplay early on. USF is pretty weak. No nades, no smoke on rifles or echelon. You need to fast tech to captain to get AAHT and pak howi. You could go mortar but you lose a lot of presence for a unit that won't necessarily pay for itself, given how expensive rifles are. 1v1 it's less pronounced because of a larger field of play, but in teamgames, the amount of units on the map, and laney-ness of most 3v3+ maps gives ample time for OST MGs to set up and cover a lot of ground. Still, never complained about that since there is ALWAYS a flank you can exploit or just focus different part of the map until you get the units to push out the bunkers. If you're throwing units headfirst on MGs and complaining how it's suppressing them and claiming MAXIM OP, then...no words.
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