I'm not a strategist but here's my 2 cents. It's actually not a good idea to lump opponents into "Axis" because Ostheer and OKW are so radically different. Strengths, weaknesses, and playstyle of the two Axis factions have almost no similarity tbh.
As USF I find the mid game a struggle. Ostheer snipers cause serious bleed, which often forces me to get an early m20. Panzergrens are ferocious in the mid-game as well, and it's pretty easy to lose a squad to bundled nades. Even a significant fuel lead and getting a tank out way earlier than your opponent doesn't help too much, Stug is cheap and deadly, and PAKs are always excellent. Use smoke grenades to deal with HMGs, and double-bar all your rifles to chew through Ostheer infantry. Late game Ostheer isn't anything special, with the only real worry being a Cp17 Tiger Ace.
Whereas vs OKW the pain comes from the Luchs in the early game (I usually go Captain first), and the very late game when Vet 5 starts to kick in. OKW tech is really expensive so it takes a while for their good stuff to come online. I generally regard that as the window of opportunity - it's 285 fuel between Luchs and P4 (325 if he made a med truck), so make the most of the time when the OKW player has no real armour. Double barred rifles will chew through equal vet volks/unvetted Obers, mg34 etc. You have to reverse the territory gains and mp bleed from the Luchs period, and try to constantly push/deny the good spots for Schwer placement, which will commonly be fuel/vp pts or cut-offs.
If you're behind on fuel cos of the OKW's powerful opening 10 mins, Armour Company lets you get AT and AI tanks without teching. M10s are really cheap fuel-wise, and diving for enemy vehicles in packs can often earn you cost-effective trades. OKW vehicles are super expensive to replace, so you have to be aggressive with forcing the action. Don't sit at 50 range trading shots against each other's frontal armour.
If you're only "covering your half of the map" it's generally not good enough to win. Heck, I've lost lots of games where I had 60 to 70% map control most of the match, but couldn't handle my opponent's late-game army composition. |
It's just a problem unit altogether. When it works it works way too friggen well. I've had 3 rifle squads blaring down a raketwerfer on retreat and doing absolutely nothing to it. Being able to retreat on an AT gun is also something people seem to overlook. Or I had a jackson obliterated by two surprise rakets stealthed with no way to scout for it other then walking right on top of it. They can also get it tier 0 which counters so much light vehicle play.
On the other hand it misses sometimes and I've noticed it's more susceptible to being one shot by tanks. So when heavy tanks hit the field you bet it's going to be obliterated. A problem unit indeed.
You hit the nail on the head - It's a very extreme unit, and I honestly don't like using it at all because I prefer reliability.
Pros: Can retreat, can cloak, can garrison, great veterancy.
Cons: Bad range, bad accuracy, bad setup and aim time, idiotic projectile, vulnerable 4-man crew huddled super close to a no-cover weapon. The last point is the most frustrating bit...Vet 4/5 raketens regularly die in one shot or one shot + hull/coaxial mg burst, and the horrible range really exacerbates its vulnerability.
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Yup yup, not suggesting to kick it out, but maybe update it a bit so the vps are more central and right side's cut-off isn't so extremely vulnerable.
I play it a lot too, there's definitely many more maps I prefer to veto. Better right side on Kholodny than Semoskiy (ever). What happened to Market Garden btw? It was removed the previous patch? |
Really hope Kholodny Ferma gets reworked. East side is borderline unplayable.
Significantly worse retreat paths consisting of far more roads than your opponent, spawns further from all VPs, a highly vulnerable cut-off, retaking your own cut-off consists of crossing a road vs enemy in green cover, your opponent has a defensible muni point and you don't. |
I'am solidly middling right now at rank 10 1v1 with the soviets, mostly off conscript reliant builds that go t2 most of the time. It is impossible to deny the ubiquity of t1, dshkas, and penals, into sherman spam in the tournament scene and upper level play, but I was wondering if there are still strategies that function well without relying on this core. This is in the context of the upper mid 1v1 scene.
Is the maxim ever worth getting? I find that it is decent upon acquiring the activated ability but prior to that is extremely lackluster suppression wise.
I'm no pro (am only lvl 16), but I've been playing and learning the game for quite some time now, and I often watch the pros play. Some of them have managed to make conscript-builds work by going for early map control, and some go for multiple engineers for lots of capping and trap setting pressure.
That said, even the other commander paths that are viable (kv8 rush vs OKW), KV1 commander, everything is just better with penals and dshka. Why build conscripts when you have terminator-esque dps from Penals? Why build maxims when you have the space age gatling gun dshka? They're vastly superior options that make it difficult for players to want to choose Conscripts and T2. You can still play/compete I guess, but they're firmly entrenched in the meta for very good reason. |
You're necroing a dead post btw. Before WBP I was struggling with USF, nowadays not so much. Do note that at least half of the things I mentioned were addressed in the WBP - OKW light vehicle improvement, OKW faust improvement, USF mortars, USF rifleman with double lmg, USF Stuart etc. Also, I bought Scavenge doctrine, which bumped my win rate up quite a bit.
The panzerfaust re-nerf is a headache for me but I understand why it was done.
Also, I'm not very good, am in the 300s and 400s so using raketens is too difficult for me. I prefer using the typical AT guns. I understand that getting better with the raketen will solve a lot of problems, so I've been trying to work on that. |
I was in a rush to go off, haven't touched it since then. At that point in time the unit was just running on the spot permanently, couldn't unstick them with either retreat or any move command, unfortunately. They were "inside" the fence and couldn't hop out in either direction. |
On Crossroads, on the South-Eastern side of the map, just a bit north of the fuel point, there's a clump of terrain/fence that can trap units inside. Once units get in they can never get out even if they press retreat.
I accidentally closed the game without saving the replay because I was extremely angry, but I hope someone can look into the pathing on this map? It's atrocious that units get stuck and are just locked out the whole game....Ruined my game |
There is really no reason not to build sandbags with your Volks everywhere you cap, specially if you place them besides the flag so only you can benefit from it while defending, it will help you stall or bleed enemy rifles trying to 1vs1 your volks.
Mechanized is not really that popular, at least compared to the really meta USF commanders, so it's a surprise you are seeing it so often used against you, Raketen remains your best counter to it and I think it can one shot it, denying your enemy the withdraw and refit use.
Remember it can retreat so you can be bold with it as you go around ninja capping with it.
Yeah lower-mid level meta is quite different from higher tier play. I don't see maxim spam that much for Soviets even though I read about it a lot on forums/chat. It happens on occasion, but conscripts with PPSH or shock troops into KV8 are far more common. I guess I'll just try to improve with my raketenwerfer control for now. 0-6 in games against the damned truck. |
1) if you go battlegroup first, you maybe should go t3 next, not mechanized truck and then luchs, because t3 allows you to hold cutoff/fuel constantly and make p4. By the time you build t1 and t2 and luchs, usf player may have sherman already.
2) if you want luchs, go staight for t2 and luchs and then battlegroup. that is pro tactic Kappa
3) try early kubelspam - build 2 kubels, keep them together with sturmpio support, hunt and push lone usf squads. And make sure 3rd kubel is capping your side of map with shift-order. This strat works on open areas with few buildings. Also dont forget to tech up in time
I've been trying around with different build orders/tech paths, thanks for the suggestions. I've also noticed I don't use mines or sandbags at all, which is something that I need to implement in my games.
The only thing which I really feel like I've no chance against is the military truck. Everything else can be dealt with if I play well. Volks and Sturms can't scratch it, and with one rifle squad inside it can easily chase down and kill an entire squad. Only answer seems to be skilful use of raketenwerfer, but the skill required to capably use an immobile unit that dies easily to enemy infantry squads and has limited fire arc and line of sight is beyond a player of my level. Whereas abusing the military truck requires a very low amount of skill - even a player of my level (9/10) can comfortably abuse it to murder countless enemy squads. Even if I do kill his military truck (only happens if the opponent is really careless), it means I've dumped a lot of early manpower on the raketenwerfer, which is just a slow moving and hyper-vulnerable capping unit for the rest of the early-mid game, which in turn makes me uncompetitive in seizing territory. How do pro players deal with the 0cp military truck? |