I don't really understand why an occasional bounce from a p4 is so unbalanced. When it comes to regular tank battles, other tanks bounce shots off the p4. I've had a p4 miss, but not bounce on an allied tank. When it comes to unfair bouncing it only gets worse as you go up from p4. Axis heavier armor can double or triple their already high health with bounced shots. 57mm, m36, m4, bazooka, all frequently bounce. Axis AT can reliably 4 shot an m36, with p4 sometimes needing 5 on m36. At least with USF, I've had panthers just parked in front of a 57mm, not pay attention to the panther, bounce 4 57mm shots, then notice and move it back. The m36 still has disappearing rounds too, either it doesn't shoot out the barrel or the round disappears when it reaches the target, doing 0 damage. It's quite pathetic, so I really don't see why the p4 sometimes bouncing one shot is anything significant.
Every AT-gun/tank/whatever has disappearing rounds. It happens on all sides. Nothing limited to the M36.
The odds of a Panther bouncing 4 57mm shots in a row are 10% and that is if all shots hit front armour. And that is for a vet 0 M1 ATG without HVAP. |
And it's weird that most low-rank USF players don't realise they have the best AT gun in the game. By the time you're fighting Panthers and KT, surely you can afford a small handful of muni to give the AT gun which has the best RoF, tracking, and fire arc the highest penetration as well.
You forgot the extra range it gets. But I agree completely. It is so frustrating when people claim the USF AT gun is somehow bad when it is clearly the best in the anti-tank department. Guess none of them had their tanks sniped at 65 range (or whatever take aim gives, maybe even 70?) by a combination of HVAP shells and Take Aim self spotting before.
How many times do people need to point out that the USF ATG is absolutely insane when feeding it some muni. And feeding it some muni really is not a big deal considering it is currently the chepeast AT-gun in COH2. (other than soviet mini at gun) |
Yup the 10 whole second delay in the Jackson hitting the field certainly wasn't high impact. Token balance changes are worse than actually attempting to balance something if you ask me because it's acknowledging an issue but doing nothing for it.
Yeah that change was very very weird. I don't know what they thought it is going to accomplish? |
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At least we all agree the Scott is too durable maybe the balance team can give it a thought? |
(2vs2) perspektive
the problem with this is that usf kind of needs the pak howi cheese to stay viable on certain maps, with worse pak howi it will just suck on maps like rails and metal and such, double mg + sniper (for example) will have no effective punishment. Its kind of the same with the Jackson one needs to be carefull about nerfs ( they certainly are very strong but are a needed element in the faction)
This is kind of the same with zis gun barrage.
Pak howi certainly requires more micro these days, autofire isnt worth it so much.
When i play ostheer i mostly have no problem with a pak howitzer wiping my sqads as long as there is only 1, the last change certainly made them less wipey, becouse they deal only a lot of hp dmg, so when i loose a sqad its mostly due to misplay.
However when the usf player gets 2 pak howitzers stuff start off to get really cancerous becouse one deals the hp dmg and another one wipes it.
I could definetly get used to a cost increase + higher aim time on autofire, but barrage needs to remain strong
The scott should definetly get
1 a cost increase
2 remove the smoke and add faster barrage cooldown as vet 1
But that doesn't explain why the Pak Howitzer is so much better than the Leig or UKF's indirect options. Both UKF and OKW struggle vs team weapon spam on maps without flanking opportunities like Rails, Crossing, Minsk or Kharkov. Yet they don't get anything close to the Pak Howi. OKW can go non-doctrinal Stuka but spending 100 fuel to deal with MGs isn't a great option because of how much it delays tanks. UKF has to rely on the terrible mortar pit or go for a doctrinal solution. But Sexton after barrage cool down nerf and Landmattress are mediocre too. |
Scotts die in 2 shots and have smoke
or
Scotts die in 3 shots and have no smoke
Yeah IMO either of these two solutions would work. |
I pretty much exclusively play 2v2, so I can't speak to 1v1 balance. But I don't use falls when I play as OKW, and I rarely play against them when I am allies, and when I do, I don't think they are a problem.
That being said, there doesn't seem to be a convincing reason why falls should have a snare. If people are upset about it in different game modes or levels of play, why not just take the snare away? Replace it with a mine or dedicated AT path. What is the balance team's reason for a snare on falls? I am genuinely asking.
The only reason why this is true is because OKW Tiger >>> Falls every time. |
I've always liked Katitof's idea for the Pack Howie: remove the autofire and make it a barrage weapon.
As for the Scott, my personal favourite solution is to move its Vet 1 smoke pot to the Stuart. That simultaneously deals with the Scott's excessive survivability against the dives which are meant to be its weakness and makes the Stuart function in the medium armour phase.
No way should the Stuart get smoke. It would be super unfair in the Luchs/Puma vs Stuart match-ups and make it too durable overall. IMO Stuart is fine as it is right now.
Maybe give it some more utility with vet so it has an easier time being useful once bigger tanks have arrived. |
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Title says it all. Both units are still OP. The nerfs didn't achieve anything. It's just pure cancer to go against double Scott, double Jackson infinite pop cap armies. They just can't be countered unless Ele or JT is on the field.
Pak Howitzer is way too powerful for how fast it arrives. It's 10x better than any mortar or Leig. It's now more RNG than before but the AOE is still big enough to randomly wipe units out of nowhere. Not sure why it has to be so much better than any of it's equivalents.
What I'd do about the Pak Howi is make it 6 man again. Reduce the reinforce cost of the models. That way it becomes less of an MP sink in late game but in return make it's AOE slightly worse so it doesn't get so many wipes or near wipes.
Scott should probably be slightly less durable so it should lose the smoke cannister panic button. It still takes 3 shots to kill it so they will still not be that easy to kill.
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Fallschirmjäger should definitely lose their Faust. No elite AI infantry has a snare. That's the reason why Shocks, Rangers, Paratroopers, Obers, etc don't have them. Not sure why Falls are supposed to be the exception for no apparent reason. |
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